windbane said: kenzomatic said: windbane said: I'd also like to comment that it's equally hard to review movies that are completely different genres. All you can do is judge them against others of the same genre and try to determine which one was more superior to its peers in comparison. That is exactly what you do with videogame reviews. Yeah but they don't review excersise tapes. If they did, Wii Fit would probably score lower.

REALLY so you think Roger Ebert should be reviewing exercise tapes as well because they are on the same medium?

windbane said: kenzomatic said: Username2324 said: Just for anyone too lazy to read the entire thing: He is crying about the gaming review system saying its unfair because GTA4 got a 10 and SSBB didnt. He thinks games should be rated on a completely different scale just for Wii because "casuals" don't want anything that hardcore gamers do. Further more, he thinks the Wii is the pure gaming experience because the PS3 and 360 are too similar which makes them both crap. And finally he closes with how great the Wii has done to differentiate itself from the PS2 no less, a last gen system, so to Nintendo, Well Done! You've managed to outdo a 7 year old console! He does have a little bit of a point how does wii sports get all these BAFTA and score a 6 in some reviews. BAFTA? Wii Sports is a very shallow game...

You have a problem with BAFTA?

ultraslick said: @Gnizmo, Yeah I think this whole tangent is driving away from the OP a little bit and a lot of that is my fault. But I understand and agree with a lot of what you said, as long as it doesn't directly disprove anything I said. I think we both see the possibilities that both the wii and the PS3/360 bring to the table for the future, and we place emphasis on certain areas. I do believe that todays best games exist on the HD consoles, and the reviewers in some cases have backed that up. (just My opinion) I respect the advances the wii is attempting to make and I hope they become fully realized in the wii 2, as I have always respected Nintendo. I could talk all night about this, but I must go play GTA for a bit and then go to bed. It is 3:40 Am here.

It is a bit but I think it also still deal directly with the core of the post. The new possibilities and genres introduced by the Wii's control function are mostly being explored in a new way. Rather than optimize it for FPS or a great console RTS developers are heading towards the mass market path. This has caused a big backlash against the Wii in certain circles, and directly contributes to the "GTA will kill the Wii," meme.

As for which games are best, well that will always be a matter of opinion. Gamerankings and Metacritic can tell you what the best reviewed game is, but never the best game. The best game I played last generation was either Disgaea 2 or The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker. Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn might very well be the best game I have played this generation so far. None of these are anywhere near the top of the review lists, but I don't care. They are the most fun for me and thats what matters.

While I agree that GTAIV did not deserve 10s across the board (9.5 would've been better), the entire premise of your argument is flawed. This statement is 100% false, and I'm surprised nobody has yet contested it's validity:

GTAIV has improvements that are far deeper and far more compelling than just more polygons and better textures. Your interactivity with the world around you has been raised to startling levels. The way you fly through your windshield when you crash, the way your pursuers will grab onto your car door as you attempt to flee the scene, the way cops will assist you if you're being chased (assuming they don't know you started the confrontation, lol), etc. are all part of a truly fantastic gaming experience that far surpasses anything from past GTAs.

And then there's the brand new and quite robust online system, which includes multiplayer modes like Cops & Robbers, etc.

Honestly, the many improvements to GTAIV have made me seriously consider buying it (and I probably will, once I can scrounge up the cash), despite having not bought a GTA since GTAIII (which I sold just a couple of years later, and I NEVER sell games).

Since GTAIII, I've been quite the hater of the series, and after GTAIV dethroned the greatest game of all time (OoT is the greatest. Yes, this is fact) at Gamerankings, I was even more angry and hateful of the franchise. However, my experiences over the past 2-3 days have really been changing my attitude towards the game.

windbane said: Grey Acumen said: wartaal said: basicly, the improvements gta 4 made from gta SA were bigger than ssbb did compared to even the original n64 smash brothers. in almost 10 years nintendo just used the same basic formula with some minor tweaks. the next smash brothers will be very similar to the other three and nintendo will throw in some next characters > nintendo fanboys happy. gta4 is pushing both consoles to its limits, therefore it will be having some minor errors that will soon be fixed hopefully. great.... what are they? I've heard from so many people that the improvements made to GTA IV are huge. I haven't heard anyone actually list out ANYTHING other than "storyline and graphics" Why don't you actually READ the reviews instead of commenting on how the reviewers are all incapable of being fair reviewers? The major problems in the other GTA games: aiming was terrible, graphics were subpar (compared to non-open world games). Those problems are not present in GTA (the graphics might not be CoD4 or Uncharted but they are quite good). The story is very good and open world is huge. Missions are fun. The game is 16-player online for the first time ever. Read the reviews for more details.

Uh, because I don't own either system that has GTA IV, nor have I played GTA III, there's no reason for me to read them for personal purposes, and i specifically stated such in the post. I then offered people the chance to reply with actual reasoning besides; "dur, you're a wii fanboy and are just hating on GTA IV!" rather than actually saying anything about the game they claim is getting bashed.

In fact, I still don't need to read the reviews because the game itself does not affect this article, but the reaction of people talking about it does. If I were to go in and say "brawl sucks" I would have 15 people listing out item by item exactly what features set brawl above other fighting games and also what improvements it has made from melee. You THINK that I am trying to say that GTA isn't a good game(even though I haven't) and it takes some 60 replies before anyone even attempts to put together a halfway decent list.
Even now you just have "world huge, story good, missions fun, problems gone" What makes it fun? Is it because the missions have block puzzles to solve? I love block puzzles! or is it because you bash people in the head without any real reason or repercussions? I don't find that stuff as fun. Oh wait gee, how do i know which "fun" my review score should reflect?
Apparently, I should just go ask one of the reviewers you put so much faith in. They must have this all under control and have developed a special number that looks like a 10, provided you like that type of game, and looks like some other number if you don't like that game.

makingmusic476 said: While I agree that GTAIV did not deserve 10s across the board (9.5-9.8 would've been better), the entire premise of your argument is flawed. This statement is 100% false, and I'm surprised nobody has yet contested it's validity: Comparatively, from what I've heard, GTAIV is much the same as GTA III, but with improved story and enhanced visuals, yet still has issues such as aggravating pop in and difficult vehicle handling. [finally someone lists out some specifics, it only took 2 pages]

It's validity can hardly be contested since that IS what i've heard of the thing. You're the first person to actually list out any specific concrete improvements. That's why I told people to bring out their own assesment of the game and whatnot.

 

 

Grey Acumen said: windbane said: Grey Acumen said: wartaal said: basicly, the improvements gta 4 made from gta SA were bigger than ssbb did compared to even the original n64 smash brothers. in almost 10 years nintendo just used the same basic formula with some minor tweaks. the next smash brothers will be very similar to the other three and nintendo will throw in some next characters > nintendo fanboys happy. gta4 is pushing both consoles to its limits, therefore it will be having some minor errors that will soon be fixed hopefully. great.... what are they? I've heard from so many people that the improvements made to GTA IV are huge. I haven't heard anyone actually list out ANYTHING other than "storyline and graphics" Why don't you actually READ the reviews instead of commenting on how the reviewers are all incapable of being fair reviewers? The major problems in the other GTA games: aiming was terrible, graphics were subpar (compared to non-open world games). Those problems are not present in GTA (the graphics might not be CoD4 or Uncharted but they are quite good). The story is very good and open world is huge. Missions are fun. The game is 16-player online for the first time ever. Read the reviews for more details. Uh, because I don't own either system that has GTA IV, nor have I played GTA III, there's no reason for me to read them for personal purposes, and i specifically stated such in the post. I then offered people the chance to reply with actual reasoning besides; "dur, you're a wii fanboy and are just hating on GTA IV!" rather than actually saying anything about the game they claim is getting bashed. In fact, I still don't need to read the reviews because the game itself does not affect this article, but the reaction of people talking about it does. If I were to go in and say "brawl sucks" I would have 15 people listing out item by item exactly what features set brawl above other fighting games and also what improvements it has made from melee. You THINK that I am trying to say that GTA isn't a good game(even though I haven't) and it takes some 60 replies before anyone even attempts to put together a halfway decent list. Even now you just have "world huge, story good, missions fun, problems gone" What makes it fun? Is it because the missions have block puzzles to solve? I love block puzzles! or is it because you bash people in the head without any real reason or repercussions? I don't find that stuff as fun. Oh wait gee, how do i know which "fun" my review score should reflect? Apparently, I should just go ask one of the reviewers you put so much faith in. They must have this all under control and have developed a special number that looks like a 10, provided you like that type of game, and looks like some other number if you don't like that game. makingmusic476 said: While I agree that GTAIV did not deserve 10s across the board (9.5-9.8 would've been better), the entire premise of your argument is flawed. This statement is 100% false, and I'm surprised nobody has yet contested it's validity: Comparatively, from what I've heard, GTAIV is much the same as GTA III, but with improved story and enhanced visuals, yet still has issues such as aggravating pop in and difficult vehicle handling. [finally someone lists out some specifics, it only took 2 pages] It's validity can hardly be contested since that IS what i've heard of the thing. You're the first person to actually list out any specific concrete improvements.

Awww someones feelings got hurt.

It's pretty simple, the number give to a game is for the quality of the game, if it is considered of good quality, it gets a good number.

Frankly I'm surprised, all of your Wii fits and MarioKart Wii's and SSBB all were rated very high, whats the problem? Oh that's right, GTA4 got rated higher so there's a problem.

Like you said, "casuals" don't read reviews, so right write a specific review for them when you can just write a general review for everyone?

Seriously this needs to stop, we all know you're a Wii fanboy, you're talking smack about a game you haven't played, you're only going off of what others have said and what reviewers (we know how much you hate them) have said.

 

Username2324 you need to stop attacking other members you're going to get another ban.

Grey: if your whole purpose is to criticize the game review industry, claiming they are not capable of accurately reviewing games, then why would you not be informed about what you are talking about? I read reviews all the time for games I'm not going to even play.

I haven't played the game yet, and I didn't play the previous 3 games much, but I'm already more informed than you because you seem to think GTA IV is a slight improvement to 3. San Andreas was the last game.

It's not my job to tell you why the game is great. It is clear from reviews that the story has a direct influence on the missions because that's kinda how games and stories work. Action is usually driven by what's happening. I'm sure there are also a lot of side missions that are just for fun. What's fun? Interacting with the world. There's a lot to do, I hear.

You have all these outs: "I am not saying it's a bad game, I am not informed on the topic and it's your job to do the research for me, you need to read my entire huge post that could be very much condensed." Like others have said, that's annoying to argue with. You like to say a lot without really saying anything.

The only thing you need to know is that GTA IV the best open world game ever made and its minor flaws were not large enough to lower scores much. There's no conspiracy. There's no anti-Wii sentiment. I'd argue more Wii games are overated, but that's a whole different topic.

kenzomatic said: Username2324 you need to stop attacking other members you're going to get another ban.

What? I'm sympathizing with the man!

I don't recall ever attacking him.

And the time I did get banned was bogus, sc94579 was suppose to be banned for 6 weeks, and if he had been I wouldnt have.

 

Grey Acumen said: windbane said: Grey Acumen said: wartaal said: basicly, the improvements gta 4 made from gta SA were bigger than ssbb did compared to even the original n64 smash brothers. in almost 10 years nintendo just used the same basic formula with some minor tweaks. the next smash brothers will be very similar to the other three and nintendo will throw in some next characters > nintendo fanboys happy. gta4 is pushing both consoles to its limits, therefore it will be having some minor errors that will soon be fixed hopefully. great.... what are they? I've heard from so many people that the improvements made to GTA IV are huge. I haven't heard anyone actually list out ANYTHING other than "storyline and graphics" Why don't you actually READ the reviews instead of commenting on how the reviewers are all incapable of being fair reviewers? The major problems in the other GTA games: aiming was terrible, graphics were subpar (compared to non-open world games). Those problems are not present in GTA (the graphics might not be CoD4 or Uncharted but they are quite good). The story is very good and open world is huge. Missions are fun. The game is 16-player online for the first time ever. Read the reviews for more details. Uh, because I don't own either system that has GTA IV, nor have I played GTA III, there's no reason for me to read them for personal purposes, and i specifically stated such in the post. I then offered people the chance to reply with actual reasoning besides; "dur, you're a wii fanboy and are just hating on GTA IV!" rather than actually saying anything about the game they claim is getting bashed. In fact, I still don't need to read the reviews because the game itself does not affect this article, but the reaction of people talking about it does. If I were to go in and say "brawl sucks" I would have 15 people listing out item by item exactly what features set brawl above other fighting games and also what improvements it has made from melee. You THINK that I am trying to say that GTA isn't a good game(even though I haven't) and it takes some 60 replies before anyone even attempts to put together a halfway decent list. Even now you just have "world huge, story good, missions fun, problems gone" What makes it fun? Is it because the missions have block puzzles to solve? I love block puzzles! or is it because you bash people in the head without any real reason or repercussions? I don't find that stuff as fun. Oh wait gee, how do i know which "fun" my review score should reflect? Apparently, I should just go ask one of the reviewers you put so much faith in. They must have this all under control and have developed a special number that looks like a 10, provided you like that type of game, and looks like some other number if you don't like that game. makingmusic476 said: While I agree that GTAIV did not deserve 10s across the board (9.5-9.8 would've been better), the entire premise of your argument is flawed. This statement is 100% false, and I'm surprised nobody has yet contested it's validity: Comparatively, from what I've heard, GTAIV is much the same as GTA III, but with improved story and enhanced visuals, yet still has issues such as aggravating pop in and difficult vehicle handling. [finally someone lists out some specifics, it only took 2 pages] It's validity can hardly be contested since that IS what i've heard of the thing. You're the first person to actually list out any specific concrete improvements.

Touche. :P

Still, your concept of the game sells it quite short. It would be like me saying, "Super Mario Galaxy is like Super Mario Sunshine, but with better graphics and no waterpack. Man, I loved that waterpack. :'( " and then ignoring the awesome gravity puzzles, etc. under the excuse of "I haven't played the game."

(Note: The "Man, I loved that waterpack bit." was added in purely for comedic reasons. Not to mention I did in fact love the waterpack. :P)