Katilian said: ssj12 said: 15+ million active steam accounts, 10 million WoW users, 25 million other MMO players, and the millions of other players that still play WC3, Diablo 2, starcraft, and all the FPSs say hello. There might be some overlap but I am going to go out on a limb here and say the PC gaming overall dwarfs the PS2's userbase. I seriously think this is whats causing the issues with PC gaming's "decline". You have 35 million gamers who for the most of it, haven't bought a game in years because they are happy paying $15 a month to continue playing the same game they purchased years ago. Add into that (as you've mentioned) the hundreds of other old games with online play, and you have less of a market again.

That's very true, and I'd bet there are more than 25 million MMO players, but we can't be sure. What we can be more certain is that there are 16 million MMO paying subscribers today, and within 2 years it will reach 20 million definitely. Everyone look at this chart:

http://www.mmogchart.com/Chart4_files/Subscriptions_21524_image001.png

Look at how it's increasing exponencially. And in 2008 and 2009 we will see another big jumps in the numbers with the release of Age of Conan, Warhammer Online, APB, Ragnarok Online, etc...

For a better understanding of revenue, WoW made $1.2 billion alone in last year (32% bigger than US PC retail market).

Yes, well, this is why I opted to use game unit sales instead of revenue, because the MMOs certainly screw up that figure.

But the game unit retail sales for PC were 36 million in 2007 according to NPD. That's without Steam. So clearly games are still selling even with subscription games.

epsilon72 said: shio said: memory2zack said: BenKenobi88 said: No, it's generally a console fanboyfest saying that PC gaming is dying, and then the PC gamers have to spell it out in plain terms until everyone understands that PC gaming is fine, then the thread dies because there's nothing left to say. that´s true, but one-sided. On the other side, many PC gamers though yell how PC games are superior and such. We are just spreading facts Ignorance is bad and all True. I used to play consoles exclusively, but after getting into PC's more after building my own a few years ago, I've come to see the light. Consoles are great and all, but they don't come close to touching the customization, flexibility, accuracy, and power of PC's. Also, *pictures a semi-frustrated naznatips wielding a massive banhammer*

 

OT: There is no decline, just a shift. PC gaming is becoming nearly online exclusive. The amazing speed at which Steam has expanded is evidence of this. PC gamers want to buy and play their games online. This is something that sets them apart from consoles, and this is why PC online services offer so much more than console online services... because online is the lifeblood of PC gaming.

You also have to look at the fact that the developers that continue to support the MMOs do make expansion packs which sell like made meaning that they do help keep market share up due to all the sales of the expansions.

Also all subscription fees goes to computer companies for new server upgrades, development costs for expansion packs, and fund new title development.

MMOs really dont hurt the market as much as people think. Plus, some MMO players do actually buy other games and play them.

Not quite SSJ12, of the 1.2 billion Blizzard raked in last year, they only used 500 million of it. And that goes to servers and bandwidth, development of Lich King, SC2, and the unnamed MMO.

naznatips said: epsilon72 said: shio said: memory2zack said: BenKenobi88 said: No, it's generally a console fanboyfest saying that PC gaming is dying, and then the PC gamers have to spell it out in plain terms until everyone understands that PC gaming is fine, then the thread dies because there's nothing left to say. that´s true, but one-sided. On the other side, many PC gamers though yell how PC games are superior and such. We are just spreading facts Ignorance is bad and all True. I used to play consoles exclusively, but after getting into PC's more after building my own a few years ago, I've come to see the light. Consoles are great and all, but they don't come close to touching the customization, flexibility, accuracy, and power of PC's. Also, *pictures a semi-frustrated naznatips wielding a massive banhammer*   OT: There is no decline, just a shift. PC gaming is becoming nearly online exclusive. The amazing speed at which Steam has expanded is evidence of this. PC gamers want to buy and play their games online. This is something that sets them apart from consoles, and this is why PC online services offer so much more than console online services... because online is the lifeblood of PC gaming.

Is that a self-portrait?

I love how he blames the PC for a game that just sucked. Crysis + UT3 + Hellgate:London = piracy. I started pirating stuff after buying these 3 overhyper games which ended up sucking. (off topic: I still pay if i download a game and i like it enough; sent the guys that made BioShock 50 dollar check and the donated 15 to the AudioSurf peeps). I also really don't see how PC gaming is declining. Yes, it had a bad year in 2007, but that's mostly because the consoles released were finally able to come close to the power of PCs. As the current generation of consoles gets older we should see more and more games coming out for the PC again. Any other arguments I had on this have already been made above so no point in restating them.

cwbys21 said: Not quite SSJ12, of the 1.2 billion Blizzard raked in last year, they only used 500 million of it. And that goes to servers and bandwidth, development of Lich King, SC2, and the unnamed MMO.

 im pretty sure a percentage of that also went to shareholders, and paid wages throught the company. Would love to know what the Christmas bonus was.

vlad321 said: I love how he blames the PC for a game that just sucked. Crysis + UT3 + Hellgate:London = piracy. I started pirating stuff after buying these 3 overhyper games which ended up sucking. (off topic: I still pay if i download a game and i like it enough; sent the guys that made BioShock 50 dollar check and the donated 15 to the AudioSurf peeps). I also really don't see how PC gaming is declining. Yes, it had a bad year in 2007, but that's mostly because the consoles released were finally able to come close to the power of PCs. As the current generation of consoles gets older we should see more and more games coming out for the PC again. Any other arguments I had on this have already been made above so no point in restating them.

 Why are you sending them checks and donating?  Why not just buy the game if you like it?

And you should have checked out reviews and demos before paying full price for those games...I played the demos for all 3 of those games and took a pass, no pirating necessary. 

BenKenobi88 said: vlad321 said: I love how he blames the PC for a game that just sucked. Crysis + UT3 + Hellgate:London = piracy. I started pirating stuff after buying these 3 overhyper games which ended up sucking. (off topic: I still pay if i download a game and i like it enough; sent the guys that made BioShock 50 dollar check and the donated 15 to the AudioSurf peeps). I also really don't see how PC gaming is declining. Yes, it had a bad year in 2007, but that's mostly because the consoles released were finally able to come close to the power of PCs. As the current generation of consoles gets older we should see more and more games coming out for the PC again. Any other arguments I had on this have already been made above so no point in restating them. Why are you sending them checks and donating? Why not just buy the game if you like it? And you should have checked out reviews and demos before paying full price for those games...I played the demos for all 3 of those games and took a pass, no pirating necessary.

Well the pirating thing is like a demo version of the game. And i only don't pay for the worst of games. Besides that way the developers get 100% of the money, no money going to steam or best buy or w/e. I just got tired of wasting my measily college student income on crap so I took steps not to be swindled by a company's marketing department. I don't see it as wrong at all, i see it as karma. Maybe then developers will start releasing games worth paying 50 dollars (or 10 in AudioSurf's case). I'm not promoting bad pirating. If you like something support the company and give them what they are asking for. I do the same thing for movies. If I like the movie then i go and see it a second time in theaters. Hopefully that way we will have less Batman & Robins.