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Forums - Music - Do you think Michael Jackson was guilty?

 

Do you think he was guilty

Yes 21 33.87%
 
No 32 51.61%
 
Not sure 9 14.52%
 
Total:62
LudicrousSpeed said:
pikashoe said:

I didn't write this myself but I think it does a good job of showing what I've been trying to say.

5 Tiers of Evidence That Michael Jackson Is A Pedophile

**TIER 1** **--  The Most Indisputable Evidence That MJ Is Guilty**

Jordan Chandler's genitalia description is the single most indisputable piece of evidence in the entire case.

It is a court-reported, supervised, signed, dated legal document created in September 1993 before any photographs of Michael Jackson by the police existed. Jordan described a specific dark blemish on the underside of MJ's penis. Three months later photographs taken under a court-authorized search warrant confirmed that blemish existed in approximately the location Jordan described.

* It was confirmed independently by Bill Dworin, a 34 year veteran LAPD detective who investigated over 4,000 sexual exploitation cases

* It was confirmed independently by Lauren Weis, head of the LA County DA's Sex Crimes Unit who later became a Superior Court judge

**TIER 2 - Evidence From Inside The Defense Itself**

Carl Douglas is the second most powerful piece of evidence -- because it comes from a primary source -- inside the defense itself.

In 2010, on camera, MJ's own defense attorney described the genitalia photographs as "the 300 pound gorilla in the mediation room" and explicitly said they pursued the $23 million settlement specifically to "silence the accuser" and avoid criminal filing.

**TIER 3 - The Most Underreported Evidence In The Entire Case**

This is arguably the most underreported piece of evidence in the entire case and deserves to be in tier one or tier two in terms of its implications, even if it's slightly less structurally airtight than the genitalia description.

In September 1993, La Toya privately talked to Lauren Weis at the LA County DA's Sex Crimes Unit and named James Safechuck specifically as a suspected victim.

James Safechuck did not come forward publicly until 2014. 21 years later.

There is no explanation for how La Toya knew the name James Safechuck in September 1993 in a private call with a prosecutor unless she had genuine inside knowledge of what had happened to him. She even knew his father was a garbage collector. She wasn't reading tabloids. There were no tabloids about J.Safechuck.

La Toya went on to describe how disturbed she was by the behavioral changes she witnessed in little boys after spending multiple nights with Michael Jackson in his bedroom. She described them becoming more withdrawn and less innocent.

**TIER 4**  - **Multiple Independent Accusers With No Connection To Each Other**

Wade Robson and James Safechuck's accounts in Leaving Neverland contain specific, location-verified, timeline-corroborated details that independently align with documented trips, people, and places.

Wade defended MJ at the 2005 trial at potential personal legal cost to himself. He only came forward in 2013 after years of therapy following a breakdown after having a child himself. If this were about money or fame there were significantly easier ways to obtain both. The social pressure throughout his entire life ran overwhelmingly in the direction of staying silent.

Jason Francia testified at the 2005 trial that Jackson had touched him inappropriately on multiple occasions, always followed by money changing hands. His mother Blanca Francia, settled with MJ for a $2 million. The fact that MJ settled with a housekeeper for $2 million is itself extraordinary and almost never discussed.

Since 2013, Wade and James have lost career opportunities, received death threats, and endured relentless harassment from fans -- all while going up against an estate backed by the world's best lawyers with no guarantee of ever seeing a single dollar. Nobody puts themselves and their entire family through that for a lie. They also run a podcast called From Trauma To Triumph focused on interviews with experts working in CSA survivor therapy.

The 2016 Jane Doe case is unique because it involved the first female accuser (until Marie-Nicole Porte came forward with allegations in 2025) and included a contemporaneous paper trail of checks allegedly written by MJ himself. It also undermines the long-used defense that only boys ever accused him and that he “never abused girls.”

(To be specific, in a complaint filed in October 2016, a Jane Doe alleged that she was abused by Jackson from 1986 to 1989, when she was aged 12 to 15, and claimed that MJ secretly operated "the most sophisticated public child sexual-abuse procurement and facilitation organizations the world has known." According to the complaint, the woman had a chance meeting with Jackson at his Hayvenhurst estate in 1986, when she was 12, after which  MJ obtained her family's home phone number and through letters, phone calls, and gifts groomed her to be his sex partner.

The complaint is graphic and specific. Here is her full complaint which includes multiple checks that MJ signed and sent to her to keep her silent: https://www.scribd.com/document/329190304/Jane-Doe-Complaint

Jane Doe sued Doe 1 and Doe 2, both California corporations, in Superior Court, alleging MJ controlled both companies, which "were held out to the public to be businesses dedicated to creating and distributing multimedia entertainment by Michael Jackson," but served a "dual purpose": "The thinly veiled, covert second purpose of these businesses was to operate as a child sexual abuse operation, specifically designed to locate, attract, lure and seduce child sexual abuse victims." This is structurally the same theory of liability that Wade Robson and James Safechuck are pursuing -- that the MJ corporate entities functioned as a procurement apparatus -- meaning Jane Doe's complaint, filed in 2016, actually predates and reinforces the legal theory now headed to trial in 2027.

According to the documents Jane Doe presented, the abuse continued through puberty, and when she was 16, Michael started writing checks to keep her quiet, the first "hush money" was for $2,500, and the biggest one came in 1993 for $600,000, with more than $900,000 paid over three years, with the documents she filed including copies of checks and payments' details.

The timing of the largest check is particularly significant. The $600,000 check was written after the Chandler allegations and a criminal investigation had started, and Jane Doe had received a letter from an LA Detective only one month after that check was sent.

Random teenagers do not receive six-figure checks from international pop stars.

**TIER 5** - **The Physical Evidence At Neverland**

The Santa Barbara Sheriff's search of Neverland recovered two large-format books -- "Boys Will Be Boys" and "The Boy: A Photographic Essay" from a locked cabinet inside MJ's private master bedroom.

These were not fan gifts casually left lying around. Joseph Marcus, who managed Neverland for 17 years, testified in 2005 that every gift sent to MJ was carefully screened by staff who selected only the best things to pass on to him.

More damning is what was found inside one of them: MJ's own handwritten inscription reading "Look at the true spirit of happiness and joy in these boys' faces, this is the spirit of Boyhood. A life I never had and will always dream of." Signed MJ. You don't write a personal inscription in a book you've never chosen to keep.

Prosecutor Ron Zonen stated that Boys Will Be Boys featured approximately 90% nudity and was compiled by known pedophiles publishing under pseudonyms, strongly suggesting the books were created specifically for an audience of boy lovers.

This has all been known for years but the defenders have always and will continue to wave it away as fake/planted evidence, or lies. It’s really amazing the lengths some will go to in order to justify some pedo who was clearly molesting kids. Like what the fuck people… you can separate the artist from the art. It’s not a big deal.

Sure. MJ also bought the Elephant Man's bones, used to sleep in a hyperbaric oxygen chamber. He also bleached his skin to look white. Everthing is true



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CourageTCD said:
LudicrousSpeed said:

This has all been known for years but the defenders have always and will continue to wave it away as fake/planted evidence, or lies. It’s really amazing the lengths some will go to in order to justify some pedo who was clearly molesting kids. Like what the fuck people… you can separate the artist from the art. It’s not a big deal.

Sure. MJ also bought the Elephant Man's bones, used to sleep in a hyperbaric oxygen chamber. He also bleached his skin to look white. Everthing is true

He did try to buy the elephant man's bones, but was rejected multiple times. He did bleach his skin to even out the colour due to the vitiligo.



pikashoe said:
CourageTCD said:

Sure. MJ also bought the Elephant Man's bones, used to sleep in a hyperbaric oxygen chamber. He also bleached his skin to look white. Everthing is true

He did try to buy the elephant man's bones, but was rejected multiple times. He did bleach his skin to even out the colour due to the vitiligo.

You forgot to mention that he worshiped the ocult, that's why he made the Thriller video clip. That he wanted a white boy to play him in a Pepsi commercial. He also faked the Pepsi accident. And the is not dead, he faked his death as well. 

Last edited by CourageTCD - 1 day ago

CourageTCD said:
LudicrousSpeed said:

This has all been known for years but the defenders have always and will continue to wave it away as fake/planted evidence, or lies. It’s really amazing the lengths some will go to in order to justify some pedo who was clearly molesting kids. Like what the fuck people… you can separate the artist from the art. It’s not a big deal.

Sure. MJ also bought the Elephant Man's bones, used to sleep in a hyperbaric oxygen chamber. He also bleached his skin to look white. Everthing is true

MJ was a celebrity. Every celebrity has lots of rumors floating around about them. There are websites and magazines literally dedicated to circulating them. The difference between tabloid rumors like the stuff you mentioned and the evidence the other guy posted in the quoted post is that the evidence is reality. Also you could see it with your own eyes if you simply take an unbiased look.

What is funny about the weak attempt at defense you just made is MJ’s own PR team were responsible for many of the craziest rumors floating around about him. Including two of the ones you posted. That’s not exclusive to MJ, plenty of celebrities subscribed to the idea that no press is bad press and MJ wanted to come off as an eccentric rich person. Probably so that when we saw him grooming kids, we’d just pass it off as simply another crazy quirk from the guy with the weird childhood. He has a pet monkey and plays with elephant man bones and wants to star in Spider-Man, gee golly he’s just so weird! When in reality he wanted to be Spider-Man because it would just be one more way to get little boys into his bed.



LudicrousSpeed said:
CourageTCD said:

Sure. MJ also bought the Elephant Man's bones, used to sleep in a hyperbaric oxygen chamber. He also bleached his skin to look white. Everthing is true

MJ was a celebrity. Every celebrity has lots of rumors floating around about them. There are websites and magazines literally dedicated to circulating them. The difference between tabloid rumors like the stuff you mentioned and the evidence the other guy posted in the quoted post is that the evidence is reality. Also you could see it with your own eyes if you simply take an unbiased look.

What is funny about the weak attempt at defense you just made is MJ’s own PR team were responsible for many of the craziest rumors floating around about him. Including two of the ones you posted. That’s not exclusive to MJ, plenty of celebrities subscribed to the idea that no press is bad press and MJ wanted to come off as an eccentric rich person. Probably so that when we saw him grooming kids, we’d just pass it off as simply another crazy quirk from the guy with the weird childhood. He has a pet monkey and plays with elephant man bones and wants to star in Spider-Man, gee golly he’s just so weird! When in reality he wanted to be Spider-Man because it would just be one more way to get little boys into his bed.

But I wasn't defending him. I really changed my mind after checking highly trustful reports out there. All the evidences in favor of him were fake, the ones against him were true. The jury was bribed to found him not guilty of all the crimes too



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LudicrousSpeed said:
CourageTCD said:

Sure. MJ also bought the Elephant Man's bones, used to sleep in a hyperbaric oxygen chamber. He also bleached his skin to look white. Everthing is true

MJ was a celebrity. Every celebrity has lots of rumors floating around about them. There are websites and magazines literally dedicated to circulating them. The difference between tabloid rumors like the stuff you mentioned and the evidence the other guy posted in the quoted post is that the evidence is reality. Also you could see it with your own eyes if you simply take an unbiased look.

What is funny about the weak attempt at defense you just made is MJ’s own PR team were responsible for many of the craziest rumors floating around about him. Including two of the ones you posted. That’s not exclusive to MJ, plenty of celebrities subscribed to the idea that no press is bad press and MJ wanted to come off as an eccentric rich person. Probably so that when we saw him grooming kids, we’d just pass it off as simply another crazy quirk from the guy with the weird childhood. He has a pet monkey and plays with elephant man bones and wants to star in Spider-Man, gee golly he’s just so weird! When in reality he wanted to be Spider-Man because it would just be one more way to get little boys into his bed.

He has so much in common with Jimmy Saville. The cultivation of an eccentric persona to cover his creepy behaviour. Doing lots of charity work to shield himself from criticism. Making friends with powerful people to help hide his crimes. Using his power and influence to intimidate victims.



I think his behaviour was weird and creepy, but I don't believe that he was a pedo per se. Due to his upbringing, the guy chased the childhood he never had and prioritised kids above else. I doubt it was sexual in any way.