"Core market too small, casuals are where the money is!"

Is that a quote from Ken Kutaragi designing the PS1 or something?

hunter_alien said: bdbdbd said: Although i don't completely disagree, since the "core gamer" is getting less and less new games, in form of longer developement times and in form of sequels that basically are just new levels to the previous games (but hey, the graphics are better!), which causes people to focus more on games that they see "good" and play them more online. So it may be saturated in terms of how varied the "core gamers" games are, or the lack of it. But, there's also the thing, that the "core gamers" too play with the Wii. Observation itself wasn't bad, but how it was read was. Edit: @Toasty: You're right, but only telling half of the truth. While 3rd parties are hardly making money with Wii, they aren't doing any with other consoles. In fact, they are just losing money. Look at EA for example, while their focus has been PS360, they are only making heavy losses at the same time when smaller devs have focused on Wii and are doing better than ever. Like Grasshopper or Atlus for example.  Wow , I actually agree with this hairy guy :o Yes , there are probably less core gamers then there where before , and the best example is the games difficulty level going down .

Well thank you. Although i'd like to take credit, i must admit that what i said was largely pointed out by Iwata years back. Actually since you mentioned "core gamers", when the market expands, the core group changes to the direction where the market is expanding, since "core" is just a definition for people who pay all this fun. The thing that is happening, is that the previous core group of gamers is just making room for the new ones, or not even that (in relation to this article), is also finding new ways to play games. Just like every single time there's been major changes in the market. I definately agree that the games are going more easy direction. Some of the gaming media made notions couple of years back, that the campains in games are just becoming tutorials for playing them online. But making games easier is the way to expand the audience, while most developers fail in this. Their mistake is to make the games first for the "core" audince and then try to lower the entry point to play their game, while they should have made a low entry point in the first place and then build the game for the "core gamers", just like Starcraft.

The_vagabond7 said: did you not read any of that, disolitude? Or do you not know what saturated means? Too many people are making sports cars and the market isn't alowing for them all to be successful. The market is actually shrinking. There will always be a market for sports cars, but if that market is stagnating and shrinking, and it's becoming harder and harder to profit on sports cars, Ferrari might want to think about making a four door sedan.

I understand the article and what saturated means. My post was basically assuring everyone that all this means is that we wont get crappy games like Turok and Army of 2...instead of these games we will get Pet my pony, and Virtual Toothbrush. Hardcore gamer does not have to worry about loss of quality games...

The super cars will keep getting made and they will be faster than ever...but only the cream of the crop will stick around.

The thing is that most developers are hardcore gamers themselves, and as such they don't want to make casual games, because it is more satisfying to work on a large, big budget, serious game.

zaphodile said: The thing is that most developers are hardcore gamers themselves, and as such they don't want to make casual games, because it is more satisfying to work on a large, big budget, serious game.

Satisfaction doesn't pay the bills.

Parokki said: "Core market too small, casuals are where the money is!" Is that a quote from Ken Kutaragi designing the PS1 or something?

 I wish I could give you my internet.

disolitude said: The_vagabond7 said: did you not read any of that, disolitude? Or do you not know what saturated means? Too many people are making sports cars and the market isn't alowing for them all to be successful. The market is actually shrinking. There will always be a market for sports cars, but if that market is stagnating and shrinking, and it's becoming harder and harder to profit on sports cars, Ferrari might want to think about making a four door sedan. I understand the article and what saturated means. My post was basically assuring everyone that all this means is that we wont get crappy games like Turok and Army of 2...instead of these games we will get Pet my pony, and Virtual Toothbrush. Hardcore gamer does not have to worry about loss of quality games... The super cars will keep getting made and they will be faster than ever...but only the cream of the crop will stick around.

It's good that you made this comparision, since this is exactly what's happening. The supercars will be there, but the other manufacturers are closing the gap between supercars, let's take Volkswagen for example, RS Audis have nearly the same performance as Ferraris, which is enough for most, even the sports cars hobbyists, so they cater the same audience for most part, while most find STW Audi more practical, since you can drive fast with it but also take your family along. This causes the supercar market to shrink, when the lower tier market offers you a lot more. Sure the supercars will be made, but less and less all the time with focusing on models that sell the best. After all we have a situation where the only reason to drive a Ferrari is get to say that you drive a Ferrari, since the "casual" car manufacturers are offering the same experience and a lot more.

"we have a situation where the only reason to drive a Ferrari is get to say that you drive a Ferrari"

That 'only' part is where it´s at...it´s powerful and the "OMG a Ferrari" feeling is still very much alive in many people...I should know :P

Phendrana said: zaphodile said: The thing is that most developers are hardcore gamers themselves, and as such they don't want to make casual games, because it is more satisfying to work on a large, big budget, serious game. Satisfaction doesn't pay the bills.

Nicely put.  Developers don't get to make the games they want.  Investors tell developers what games they can make.

largedarryl said: Phendrana said: zaphodile said: The thing is that most developers are hardcore gamers themselves, and as such they don't want to make casual games, because it is more satisfying to work on a large, big budget, serious game. Satisfaction doesn't pay the bills. Nicely put. Developers don't get to make the games they want. Investors tell developers what games they can make.

 Not necessarily. I think the recent unveiling of High Voltage's games show that many developers are willing to ignore their investors in the short run and do what they want to. Unless of course their investors told them to cater to the underserved Wii demographic, in which case High Voltage may have some of the smartest investors out there. More likely, though, they got tired of being put on liscensed and racing games, and opted to go their own way. I can see other developers likewise bucking their investors' demands and making the games they want to make. Mind you, if and when those games fail, heads will roll as a result, but isn't that the beauty of taking a risk to begin with?

And as to the original article: I disagree. I don't think the core market is saturated. I don't think there is such a thing as the "core market." What's happening is that Nintendo and some other companies are offering fresh experiences, while too many of their opponents are serving up prettier versions of their past offerings. Is it any surprise that many gamers are drifting towards the novel? I love me my steak, but sometimes I like to eat sushi, or ceviche, or something new. I don't think I'm alone here.