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Chrkeller said:
Kyuu said:

Astro Bot likely already outsold DeS Remake. And again, og Demon's Souls started the genre (and Dark Souls was what truly popularized it). Demon's Souls Remake is barely more significant than Shadow of the Colossus Remake, most Elden Ring fans don't give a damn about it.

Playstation is more profitable than ever. Their PC income is tiny and decreasing. The entire PC program is probably more damaging than beneficial, apparently they're dialing back on it as far as AAA singleplayer games because they seem to have realized that the loud minority going around screaming "no games" could snowball into disaster.

Sony porting their games to PC doesn't break their IP's association with Playstation. It just hurts it a little. The vast majority of players buy Spider-Man, God of War, Horizon, TLoU on Playstation. Not PC.

You sure?  According to an article I read PC is 1/3 of their software revenue and growing.  It generated over $600,000,000 in revenue.  

And the whole dialing back is a rumor, not confirmed.  At the end of the day Sony can do whatever they want, but they will be missing out on millions upon millions of dollars.  Sony releasing games a year or two after ps5 doesn't hurt their sales, it helps their bottom line.  

PC sales now account for nearly a third of Sony's first-party game revenue | TechSpot

edit

Also found this via Gamespot:

"In total, the report said Sony's five top-selling PC releases on Steam have passed 43 million copies sold collectively. The gross revenue from these sales reportedly amounted to $1.5 billion. This includes $1.2 billion for Sony and Valve's cut of $350 million or more. Valve takes a 30% cut of PC game sales on Steam, falling to 25% after $10 million in revenue and $20% after 50 million."

Sony dropping PC support and assuming PC gamers are going to buy a ps5 is foolish and stupid.  Perhaps they do it, but I think people are buying too much into rumors.  

Some of these estimates are incorrect or unconfirmed.

Helldivers 2 was a massive hit on PC and an outlier which slowed down the descend. Sony's own software sales on Playstation constitue a small part of their platform profitability.

Now that Helldivers 2 is well past its prime, the PC revenue may decline further (it'll depend on Marathon's performance) and PS5's should climb. But let me reiterate that Sony's software is NOT the main money maker. The main purpose of Sony's software is to invite or keep players in their platform where they can then make money from services, accessories, 3rd party software, f2p, etc.

PC support can be a net positive if handled correctly. But if they don't be careful about it, they may follow Xbox's fate in the long run. Sony's PC support is part of the reason why I half-switched to PC. I ended up buying a bunch of games on Steam that could have gone to Sony instead.

Live service games being released on PC day and date is a solid strategy. I actually suggested it long before Sony did it. But they gotta keep Playstation associated with some quality experiences that you can't play anywhere else or the platform will slowly decline, or at least not grow to its full potential.

PC support has its up and downs and no one can say with full confidence whether it's a net positive or negative. We don't have sufficient data to make full conclusions. We can't say for sure which strategy works best. But common sense dictates that "no exclusives" will hurt the value of Playstation for a notably large segment of gamers that may only get larger as more people "discover PC", spread the word, and troll Playstation with "no games" memes.

"No games" is precisely what destroyed Xbox. So Sony needs to be careful.



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Kyuu said:
Chrkeller said:

You sure?  According to an article I read PC is 1/3 of their software revenue and growing.  It generated over $600,000,000 in revenue.  

And the whole dialing back is a rumor, not confirmed.  At the end of the day Sony can do whatever they want, but they will be missing out on millions upon millions of dollars.  Sony releasing games a year or two after ps5 doesn't hurt their sales, it helps their bottom line.  

PC sales now account for nearly a third of Sony's first-party game revenue | TechSpot

edit

Also found this via Gamespot:

"In total, the report said Sony's five top-selling PC releases on Steam have passed 43 million copies sold collectively. The gross revenue from these sales reportedly amounted to $1.5 billion. This includes $1.2 billion for Sony and Valve's cut of $350 million or more. Valve takes a 30% cut of PC game sales on Steam, falling to 25% after $10 million in revenue and $20% after 50 million."

Sony dropping PC support and assuming PC gamers are going to buy a ps5 is foolish and stupid.  Perhaps they do it, but I think people are buying too much into rumors.  

Some of these estimates are incorrect or unconfirmed.

Helldivers 2 was a massive hit on PC and an outlier which slowed down the descend. Sony's own software sales on Playstation constitue a small part of their platform profitability.

Now that Helldivers 2 is well past its prime, the PC revenue may decline further (it'll depend on Marathon's performance) and PS5's should climb. But let me reiterate that Sony's software is NOT the main money maker. The main purpose of Sony's software is to invite or keep players in their platform where they can then make money from services, accessories, 3rd party software, f2p, etc.

PC support can be a net positive if handled correctly. But if they don't be careful about it, they may follow Xbox's fate in the long run. Sony's PC support is part of the reason why I half-switched to PC. I ended up buying a bunch of games on Steam that could have gone to Sony instead.

Live service games being released on PC day and date is a solid strategy. I actually suggested it long before Sony did it. But they gotta keep Playstation associated with some quality experiences that you can't play anywhere else or the platform will slowly decline, or at least not grow to its full potential.

PC support has its up and downs and no one can say with full confidence whether it's a net positive or negative. We don't have sufficient data to make full conclusions. We can't say for sure which strategy works best. But common sense dictates that "no exclusives" will hurt the value of Playstation for a notably large segment of gamers that may only get larger as more people "discover PC", spread the word, and troll Playstation with "no games" memes.

"No games" is precisely what destroyed Xbox. So Sony needs to be careful.

God of War, Stellar Blade, Spider, Horizon, etc. have all sold over a million Steam...  that is a bunch of money.  

I am not convinced PC is in direct competition (for most gamers) with consoles.  A lot of people are already bought into the playstation eco system; online friends, digital games, controllers, etc.  I don't think most will suddenly just walk away from their eco system.  I also think, some of us (myself included) will build a rig to play games, but most console gamers probably don't have the slightest interest nor knowledge.  The fact we post online about gaming puts us in a unique demographic.  I would suspect the average playstation gamer, probably doesn't even know Sony has games on Steam.    

While xbox is struggling with software, I don't think that is their only reason for falling off.  The xbox one was announced with tons of DRM (later dropped), forced the kinect, was priced too high, etc.  I think there have been a series of mistakes with the xbox brand and their issues extend far wider than software.  The RROD on the 360 wasn't great either.    

edit

I had an xbox one for Halo MCC, ended up selling it.  Because anytime I went to play the game two things happened.  One, it literally had a 60+ gb update monthly (I still don't know why) and every time I opened the game I was hit with a bunch of crap like unlocked skins, etc, etc.  Even on PC, MS is a PITA.  I have to log in to a MS account, then do two step verification, etc.  My other games, I just play.  I think one of MS's biggest problems is their software doesn't work half the time and they have way too much fluff to just run a simple game.  

Last edited by Chrkeller - 1 day ago

“Consoles are great… if you like paying extra for features PCs had in 2005.”
BraLoD said:

Playstation 5 gave Sony more money in half a generation than all 4 full generations before and someone is trying to argue Playstation is not more profitable? It's literally beyond any dream Sony could have ever had.

Saying it carries the same level of legacy that XBS and needs PC.

And calling bad faith to a perfectly normal response to his absurdity no less.

Good ol' Nintendo profile pic post.

Yeah they bought Bungie and had lower profit margins YOY for half the generation.

What is the legacy of the PS5? Concord? lol Maybe Marathon? lmao

Were their profit margins not declining for years? Its not bad faith to not mention that? 

You know you could talk directly to me right? Or am I so beneath your arrogance to deserve a quote oh so pious Sony apologist?

Fuck Nintendo, by the way.



"You should be banned. Youre clearly flaming the president and even his brother who you know nothing about. Dont be such a partisan hack"

IkePoR said:
BraLoD said:

Playstation 5 gave Sony more money in half a generation than all 4 full generations before and someone is trying to argue Playstation is not more profitable? It's literally beyond any dream Sony could have ever had.

Saying it carries the same level of legacy that XBS and needs PC.

And calling bad faith to a perfectly normal response to his absurdity no less.

Good ol' Nintendo profile pic post.

Yeah they bought Bungie and had lower profit margins YOY for half the generation.

What is the legacy of the PS5? Concord? lol Maybe Marathon? lmao

Were their profit margins not declining for years? Its not bad faith to not mention that? 

You know you could talk directly to me right? Or am I so beneath your arrogance to deserve a quote oh so pious Sony apologist?

Fuck Nintendo, by the way.

What?!!?  I am not even a ps5 fan, I almost exclusively game S2 and PC..  but wtf?  Horizon, GoW, Yotei, Astrobot, Demon, Spiderman, Ratchet, etc.  The ps5 has a very good lineup.  ND has a game coming out next year as well.  



“Consoles are great… if you like paying extra for features PCs had in 2005.”
Chrkeller said:
IkePoR said:

Yeah they bought Bungie and had lower profit margins YOY for half the generation.

What is the legacy of the PS5? Concord? lol Maybe Marathon? lmao

Were their profit margins not declining for years? Its not bad faith to not mention that? 

You know you could talk directly to me right? Or am I so beneath your arrogance to deserve a quote oh so pious Sony apologist?

Fuck Nintendo, by the way.

What?!!?  I am not even a ps5 fan, I almost exclusively game S2 and PC..  but wtf?  Horizon, GoW, Yotei, Astrobot, Demon, Spiderman, Ratchet, etc.  The ps5 has a very good lineup.  ND has a game coming out next year as well.  

I'll be more precise: what is the console defining game, the game everyone thinks of when talking about it.  Not necessarily the best selling, I'm talking about importance, potentially genre defining or changing.  The "masterpiece" everyone had to get the console for.  Is that Rachet and Clank?  No more than Mario Odyssey was for the Switch(even if everyone tried to gaslight us into thinking it was).



"You should be banned. Youre clearly flaming the president and even his brother who you know nothing about. Dont be such a partisan hack"

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IkePoR said:
Chrkeller said:

What?!!?  I am not even a ps5 fan, I almost exclusively game S2 and PC..  but wtf?  Horizon, GoW, Yotei, Astrobot, Demon, Spiderman, Ratchet, etc.  The ps5 has a very good lineup.  ND has a game coming out next year as well.  

I'll be more precise: what is the console defining game, the game everyone thinks of when talking about it.  Not necessarily the best selling, I'm talking about importance, potentially genre defining or changing.  The "masterpiece" everyone had to get the console for.  Is that Rachet and Clank?  No more than Mario Odyssey was for the Switch(even if everyone tried to gaslight us into thinking it was).

I mean that is personal opinion, not something that can be defined.  For me it was Demon and Ratchet.  And for many, could be Naughty's next game.  Spider 2 was ridiculously great as well.  

Honestly, I am not sure single games define consoles anymore, assuming they ever did.  I mean the SNES had World, Metroid and LttP...  Chrono, IV, etc.  What defined the SNES?  The lineup, not a single game.  The fact is, the ps5 has a really strong lineup.  There is a reason it will easily pass 100 million units sold.  

So, not being a smart***, I don't get your point.



“Consoles are great… if you like paying extra for features PCs had in 2005.”
IkePoR said:
BraLoD said:

Playstation 5 gave Sony more money in half a generation than all 4 full generations before and someone is trying to argue Playstation is not more profitable? It's literally beyond any dream Sony could have ever had.

Saying it carries the same level of legacy that XBS and needs PC.

And calling bad faith to a perfectly normal response to his absurdity no less.

Good ol' Nintendo profile pic post.

Yeah they bought Bungie and had lower profit margins YOY for half the generation.

What is the legacy of the PS5? Concord? lol Maybe Marathon? lmao

Were their profit margins not declining for years? Its not bad faith to not mention that? 

You know you could talk directly to me right? Or am I so beneath your arrogance to deserve a quote oh so pious Sony apologist?

Fuck Nintendo, by the way.

Your post is so pathetic, to the point of you even admiting of trolling yourself that yes, you didn't even deserve a direct quote to reproduce that stupidity in the thread once again.



Chrkeller said:
Kyuu said:

Some of these estimates are incorrect or unconfirmed.

Helldivers 2 was a massive hit on PC and an outlier which slowed down the descend. Sony's own software sales on Playstation constitue a small part of their platform profitability.

Now that Helldivers 2 is well past its prime, the PC revenue may decline further (it'll depend on Marathon's performance) and PS5's should climb. But let me reiterate that Sony's software is NOT the main money maker. The main purpose of Sony's software is to invite or keep players in their platform where they can then make money from services, accessories, 3rd party software, f2p, etc.

PC support can be a net positive if handled correctly. But if they don't be careful about it, they may follow Xbox's fate in the long run. Sony's PC support is part of the reason why I half-switched to PC. I ended up buying a bunch of games on Steam that could have gone to Sony instead.

Live service games being released on PC day and date is a solid strategy. I actually suggested it long before Sony did it. But they gotta keep Playstation associated with some quality experiences that you can't play anywhere else or the platform will slowly decline, or at least not grow to its full potential.

PC support has its up and downs and no one can say with full confidence whether it's a net positive or negative. We don't have sufficient data to make full conclusions. We can't say for sure which strategy works best. But common sense dictates that "no exclusives" will hurt the value of Playstation for a notably large segment of gamers that may only get larger as more people "discover PC", spread the word, and troll Playstation with "no games" memes.

"No games" is precisely what destroyed Xbox. So Sony needs to be careful.

God of War, Stellar Blade, Spider, Horizon, etc. have all sold over a million Steam...  that is a bunch of money.  

I am not convinced PC is in direct competition (for most gamers) with consoles.  A lot of people are already bought into the playstation eco system; online friends, digital games, controllers, etc.  I don't think most will suddenly just walk away from their eco system.  I also think, some of us (myself included) will build a rig to play games, but most console gamers probably don't have the slightest interest nor knowledge.  The fact we post online about gaming puts us in a unique demographic.  I would suspect the average playstation gamer, probably doesn't even know Sony has games on Steam.    

While xbox is struggling with software, I don't think that is their only reason for falling off.  The xbox one was announced with tons of DRM (later dropped), forced the kinect, was priced too high, etc.  I think there have been a series of mistakes with the xbox brand and their issues extend far wider than software.  The RROD on the 360 wasn't great either.    

edit

I had an xbox one for Halo MCC, ended up selling it.  Because anytime I went to play the game two things happened.  One, it literally had a 60+ gb update monthly (I still don't know why) and every time I opened the game I was hit with a bunch of crap like unlocked skins, etc, etc.  Even on PC, MS is a PITA.  I have to log in to a MS account, then do two step verification, etc.  My other games, I just play.  I think one of MS's biggest problems is their software doesn't work half the time and they have way too much fluff to just run a simple game.  

It doesn't have to affect the majority of console gamers short term to be a disaster. If hypothetically 10% of PS players switch to PC, that translates to about $300 millon loss of annual profit. That's about as much profit lost in 5 years as Sony's entire revenue from PC per your GameSpot quote (which seems exaggerated anyway).

Now if we look back several years to late 2018... Sony had 90 million monthy active users peak by year's end. In December 2019, they reached 103 million. Fastforward to December 2025, they hit 132 million, which is a massive increase. However this doesn't comfirm that PC had no impact. In an alternate universe where Sony never supported PC, the number may have exceeded 140 million. The actual growth may be a result of PS taking Xbox players, or just an extension of gaming becoming bigger than it was in 2019, or both.

Consoles have an aging audience while PC is growing huge among young people. Over time it'll affect console sales more and more. Eventually, console revenue will plateau and then decline. The average Playstation user 10 years from now will be more aware of what's going on compared to today. PC dominance is inevitable, but high profile exclusives should help keeping consoles relevant for a longer time. Unlike Nintendo, Sony is damaging the connection between PS IP's and PS brand. Right now, it's not problematic, but over time it will be.

PC too will one day be dwarfed by mobile phones and smart TV's, and I mean as "premium gaming" devices (all the titles that we associate with consoles and PC today will one day be primarily played on mobile phones and TV's lol).



BraLoD said:
IkePoR said:

Yeah they bought Bungie and had lower profit margins YOY for half the generation.

What is the legacy of the PS5? Concord? lol Maybe Marathon? lmao

Were their profit margins not declining for years? Its not bad faith to not mention that? 

You know you could talk directly to me right? Or am I so beneath your arrogance to deserve a quote oh so pious Sony apologist?

Fuck Nintendo, by the way.

Your post is so pathetic, to the point of you even admiting of trolling yourself that yes, you didn't even deserve a direct quote to reproduce that stupidity in the thread once again.

Ah yes, the "You're so bad I wont even respond" tactic.  Classic.  

If you cannot contend with 'trolling stupidity' you're fucking cooked against genuine arguing.  

You know I took hiatus of this place because of disingenuousness and obfuscation used in political threads.  How depressing the same cowardly tactics have snaked their way into pure gaming discussions.



"You should be banned. Youre clearly flaming the president and even his brother who you know nothing about. Dont be such a partisan hack"

Hey can we all just chill? :(