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Forums - Gaming - Most influential system (and why)

Leynos said:
Chrkeller said:

4 shoulder buttons wouldn't exist without Sony. Without Sony we would all be stuck with 2 shoulder buttons because reasons.

Wrong.

https://segaretro.org/XE-1_AP

Cool controller, never seen that before. A gamepad with an analogue stick 7 years before the N64.



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Soundwave said:
Manlytears said:

Realy? let's see:

Analog Stick:

Nintendo didn't even have an analog stick; it was more of an optical tracker ball using a technology that has been completely abandoned. 

It's an "interaction" that failed miserably to become standard. It was fragile, imprecise, and lacked button functionality. The design was so bad that it was abandoned. Most later controllers (including those from Nintendo) are designed similarly to the DualShock's analog sticks, with potentiometers.

The concept wasn't even Nintendo's; it was implemented much earlier by the XE-1 AP controller.

Nintendo didn't invent the concept and failed in its implementation. What more can be said?

Rumble: 
Of course, every modern controller needs a vibration attachment, right? lol

Using internal motors is a design created by Playstation. This is the design that became the standard and influenced all subsequent controllers.

Nintendo's design died, is no longer implemented, it went extinct like Neanderthals.

Super NES controller:
Yeah, playstation copied this.

Without the N64 controller, no chance the PS controller has rumble or analog at that point and they would win the generation and have exactly zero incentive to change anything. 

Controllers today would be massively different if there was no N64 controller, that gave both Sega and Sony a kick in the ass to start looking at rumble and analog, glossing over that is crazy. 

Sony would've just stuck with this SNES rip off design:

Make this black and that's your PS2 controller and if that's your PS2 controller the rest of game history is completely different. 

Saturn 3D pad predates N64 controller by a year. Let's not forget Saturn used hall effect as well as Dreamcast.



Bite my shiny metal cockpit!

Zippy6 said:
Leynos said:

Wrong.

https://segaretro.org/XE-1_AP

Cool controller, never seen that before. A gamepad with an analogue stick 7 years before the N64.

It's the first dual analog stick controller and 4 shoulder buttons with hand grips but Vextrex in 1982 had an analog stick.  Nintendo similar to Apple would popularize an existing technology. 

Last edited by Leynos - 8 hours ago

Bite my shiny metal cockpit!

Leynos said:
Chrkeller said:

4 shoulder buttons wouldn't exist without Sony. Without Sony we would all be stuck with 2 shoulder buttons because reasons.

Wrong.

https://segaretro.org/XE-1_AP

Also the first Analog stick was Vectrex not Atari

I think you missed the point and missed it by a large margin.  



“Consoles are great… if you like paying extra for features PCs had in 2005.”
Chrkeller said:
Leynos said:

Wrong.

https://segaretro.org/XE-1_AP

Also the first Analog stick was Vectrex not Atari

I think you missed the point and missed it by a large margin.  

You said would not exist which means invent. They did not. Choose your words better next time then. Plus you were flat wrong about Atari. 

Last edited by Leynos - 8 hours ago

Bite my shiny metal cockpit!

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Leynos said:
Zippy6 said:

Cool controller, never seen that before. A gamepad with an analogue stick 7 years before the N64.

It's the first dual analog stick controller and 4 shoulder buttons with hand grips but Vextrex in 1982 had an analog stick.  Nintendo similar to Apple would popularize an existing technology. Nintendo rarely (tho the Dpad is a thing) invented anything for their consoles.

Nintendo has a culture of pushing every console generation they have to bring something new to the table control wise. 

They don't have to do that, it's actually unusual, but because of that they've pushed adoption of ideas like the SNES layout, shoulder buttons, the d-pad, analog control for 3D games, rumble, wand/motion controls to the *mass market*. 

It doesn't matter if some niche, random company did it first, we are taking about mass market influence. 

Nintendo is the weird one in this case, most companies would just stick to a standardized control method and leave it alone especially if there's no competitive pressure to do so. Nintendo is the exception to the rule, not the rule itself, don't mix those two up. 

Same thing really for Apple, as much as haters want to hate on them, there's no way the modern smartphone is what it is without the iPhone. 



Soundwave said:
Manlytears said:

More speculation...

The burden of proof lies with the person making the claim. Can you prove your statement?

You have that backwards. 

We know 100% in mainstream consoles, Nintendo did analog first, rumble first, Dremcast had analog triggers first. Sony copied all of those things and was not first to any of them. No one can dispute that really. 

YOU would have to prove that somehow in a parallel timeline Sony would've incorporated those things into their controller magically some how unprompted if Nintendo or Sega didn't do it first with nothing to copy it from. I doubt that would have happened. You can't remove cause from cause & effect and expect the effect to be the same. 

With all due respect, what you said doesn't make sense...

I can only speak about my reality, the reality I know, the reality that operates with facts:

Fact: Nintendo pioneered a single digital thumbstick design, similar to a "tracker ball," for the N64. The design was flawed and was abandoned; it was never used again in the industry.

Fact: Sony implemented a design with two thumbsticks with potentiometers. The design was a success, subsequently replicated throughout the industry for about 30 years and still counting. Even copied by Nintendo.

Fact: Nintendo created an accessory called the Rumble Pack, a type of "vibrating cartridge." This design is not used in modern consoles.

Facts: PlayStation was the first to implement internal motors in its controllers. These motors became a reference and a standard for the industry. Said desing, again, copied by Nintendo.

Is there any untruthfulness in these facts?

Based on the facts, who influenced the industry more?

A) Sony, which developed designs that became the standard for about 30 years and still counting?

B) Nintendo, whose designs were entirely discarded, and which adopted the designs created by Sony?



Leynos said:
Chrkeller said:

I think you missed the point and missed it by a large margin.  

You said would not exist which means invent. They did not. Choose your words better next time then. Plus you were flat wrong about Atari. 

Still missing the point.  It was a joke post mocking the idea that something wouldn't exist if the original wasnt invented.  I thought the "because reasons" made that obvious but apparently not.  Lol.

If anything you are accidentally proving my point to Sound.  Nintendo didnt invent all those things.  Did you even read the last couple of pages?



“Consoles are great… if you like paying extra for features PCs had in 2005.”

If anyone is curious these are Sony PS1 prototype controllers. The SNES influence is more obvious than ever https://www.reddit.com/r/retrogaming/comments/1mziseq/sony_playstation_1_controller_prototypes/



Bite my shiny metal cockpit!

Soundwave said:
Leynos said:

It's the first dual analog stick controller and 4 shoulder buttons with hand grips but Vextrex in 1982 had an analog stick.  Nintendo similar to Apple would popularize an existing technology. Nintendo rarely (tho the Dpad is a thing) invented anything for their consoles.

blah

Dude. Seriously fuck off with every post you make to anyone being some kind of argument where none exists. I stated a fact and you twisted it. Stop doing that with everyone on this fucking forum and fucking fuck the fuck off.  Do not quote me ever again if this is your approach. You may bait Perma into 65 pages of War and Peace sized posts. I'm not. This is all you get. 



Bite my shiny metal cockpit!