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Forums - Politics - Study: There is more diversity of beliefs on the political right than on the left (U.S.)

KLXVER said:
Vinther1991 said:

Possibly, but that is not exclusive to the left, the right also flip flops on what they think is the correct definition.

Thats because people on the left keep bringing birth defects and other rare illnesses into the argument. People with the XX chromosomes, people born with a vagina, people who can have babies, people who have a period through most of their lives etc are all correct. 

In the broader picture I agree. Though people with intersex characteristics aren't that rare, 1-2 % as I understand it. It is also not only the left that bring it up though, it is not long ago a right wing internet mob decided to target intersex athletes at the Olympics with mockery and anti-trans rhetoric, instead of acknowledging that their participation in sports is a complicated question, and they weren't the ones to blame for the rules.

I do admit though that I have heard people on the left arguing that biological sex is not a thing, which is of cause a crazy statement. But most tend to distinguish between biological sex and societal gender, which is a fair distinction.



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Torillian said:
KLXVER said:

Thats because people on the left keep bringing birth defects and other rare illnesses into the argument. People with the XX chromosomes, people born with a vagina, people who can have babies, people who have a period through most of their lives etc are all correct. 

Yes I guess definitions are really easy to create if you ignore any counter examples. 

Mostly I think it has to do with whether gender and sex are different things. If they are then what defines a woman can be different from what defines a female as it is mostly social constructs. Personally my argument for this would be that practically speaking most times you make the call about who is a man or a woman it is not based on chromosomes or genitals because we don't have those on display. It's instead based on societal norms and secondary sexual characteristics that are more obvious to the casual observer. With that in mind, it is reasonable to separate those societal norms from the biological reality and define who is a woman based on those as it's the most useful definition. 

Reasonable minds can disagree on how a word should be defined, on the other hand we've got "Trump won 2020", "Vaccines give you autism", and "Jan 6th was antifa" which are not by any means the same kind of disagreements. 

Then gay people might not really be gay either then, since some people dont base what it is to be gay on how you feel or who you sleep with? Yet that I guess you would wholeheartedly disagree with. Just because some people believe something, doesnt make it a fact. 



Vinther1991 said:

Either way, that is not equivalent to making factually incorrect statements like climate change isn’t real or isn’t mainly caused by human activity, or Donald Trump won the 2020 election, or vaccines don’t work, or the January 6th rioters were ANTIFA. That’s detached from empirical reality.

Those are indeed false, but conspiracy theories are not the sole domain of the right, they occur on the left as well, such as "Trump rigged the 2016/2024 elections" or "the right are preparing for a genocide of minorities, detention facilities are extermination camps".



KLXVER said:
Torillian said:

Yes I guess definitions are really easy to create if you ignore any counter examples. 

Mostly I think it has to do with whether gender and sex are different things. If they are then what defines a woman can be different from what defines a female as it is mostly social constructs. Personally my argument for this would be that practically speaking most times you make the call about who is a man or a woman it is not based on chromosomes or genitals because we don't have those on display. It's instead based on societal norms and secondary sexual characteristics that are more obvious to the casual observer. With that in mind, it is reasonable to separate those societal norms from the biological reality and define who is a woman based on those as it's the most useful definition. 

Reasonable minds can disagree on how a word should be defined, on the other hand we've got "Trump won 2020", "Vaccines give you autism", and "Jan 6th was antifa" which are not by any means the same kind of disagreements. 

Then gay people might not really be gay either then, since some people dont base what it is to be gay on how you feel or who you sleep with? Yet that I guess you would wholeheartedly disagree with. Just because some people believe something, doesnt make it a fact. 

What fact do you think we're disagreeing on?



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curl-6 said:
Vinther1991 said:

Either way, that is not equivalent to making factually incorrect statements like climate change isn’t real or isn’t mainly caused by human activity, or Donald Trump won the 2020 election, or vaccines don’t work, or the January 6th rioters were ANTIFA. That’s detached from empirical reality.

Those are indeed false, but conspiracy theories are not the sole domain of the right, they occur on the left as well, such as "Trump rigged the 2016/2024 elections" or "the right are preparing for a genocide of minorities, detention facilities are extermination camps".

Not the sole domain but damn if they aren't way better at accepting them overall. Some estimates I've seen are that 70% of republicans believe in the 2020 conspiracy. Is there anything you can point to on the left that is simultaneously so obviously factually wrong yet so completely accepted?



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Torillian said:
KLXVER said:

Then gay people might not really be gay either then, since some people dont base what it is to be gay on how you feel or who you sleep with? Yet that I guess you would wholeheartedly disagree with. Just because some people believe something, doesnt make it a fact. 

What fact do you think we're disagreeing on?

You do base what gender a person is by their chromosomes or their genitals. If you dont know, then you are just guessing. Just because a man has long hair and looks like a woman to you on the street, doesnt change or contribute to the fact that he is a man.



KLXVER said:
Torillian said:

What fact do you think we're disagreeing on?

You do base what gender a person is by their chromosomes or their genitals. If you dont know, then you are just guessing. Just because a man has long hair and looks like a woman to you on the street, doesnt change or contribute to the fact that he is a man.

Well see now you're disagreeing with the dictionary. Does that mean that you are factually incorrect or instead that you disagree with what the currently accepted definitions are and their utility?



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Torillian said:
KLXVER said:

You do base what gender a person is by their chromosomes or their genitals. If you dont know, then you are just guessing. Just because a man has long hair and looks like a woman to you on the street, doesnt change or contribute to the fact that he is a man.

Well see now you're disagreeing with the dictionary. Does that mean that you are factually incorrect or instead that you disagree with what the currently accepted definitions are and their utility?

Just because some dictionaries state that does not mean its the widely accepted truth. 



KLXVER said:
Torillian said:

Well see now you're disagreeing with the dictionary. Does that mean that you are factually incorrect or instead that you disagree with what the currently accepted definitions are and their utility?

Just because some dictionaries state that does not mean its the widely accepted truth. 

Something being a widely accepted truth doesn't necessitate it being a fact. Personally I tend to go with the consensus of experts that study these topics their entire lives rather than crowd sourcing. Likely goes with my profession, but I value expertise highly in fields which I am not well versed. 



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Torillian said:
KLXVER said:

Just because some dictionaries state that does not mean its the widely accepted truth. 

Something being a widely accepted truth doesn't necessitate it being a fact. Personally I tend to go with the consensus of experts that study these topics their entire lives rather than crowd sourcing. Likely goes with my profession, but I value expertise highly in fields which I am not well versed. 

Do you? Or do you just go with the consensus of the experts that allign more with your own beliefs? Because actual experts(not some random person who wrote a book and has a degree in some BS human behaviour science) the vast majority of actual doctors and scientists believe that your chromosomes dictade your gender.