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Forums - Politics - Rise of Atheism, discussion of pro-atheist topics, and disavowal of the 3 abramic faiths

Lavamelon said:
smroadkill15 said:

No, I won't trust you because you have demonstrated you make stuff up and take on wild assumptions for anyone who is atheist. Logical and critical thinking have almost everything to do with it. It's really gross behavior by you and several others in this thread. 

Critical thinking has nothing to do with it. There are plenty of educated people who believe in religion. Plus we have evidence that p*rn reduces belief in God.

Porn vs. Religion | Psychology Today

I'm not making this up, feel free to do your own research, we have evidence that p*rn (as well as other forms of hedonism) reduce belief in God.

Hedonism is absolutely a factor when it comes to atheism.

Who cares if it reduces belief in God? YOU CANT EVEN PROVE YOUR GOD EXISTS.
People like you are the problem and why there are more Atheists today.

There is literally nothing to believe in.

Lavamelon said:

There is plenty of evidence for God. the Catholic Church recently declared their first millennial saint Carlo Acutis after two scientifically verified were attributed to him.

Pope Leo announces when British-born 'God's Influencer' Carlo Acutis will finally be canonised | Daily Mail Online

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlo_Acutis

Not scientifically verified. No evidence. Nothing you said reinforces that there is anything scientifically verified.
WHERE is the whitepaper?

What a load of crap.

Lavamelon said:

I am more religious than my parents are. My dad rarely goes to church, but my mother goes weekly. Either way, I am more religious than both of them combined. 

That likely explains why you were indoctrinated into a cult at a young age, your parents already had that predisposition.

Lavamelon said:

If religious people become atheists later in life, its because they want to live hedonistic lifestyles. There is evidence to show that viewing online p*rn can weaken peoples belief in God. Ever wonder why atheism rates have gone up as soon as p*rn became more widespread? Trust me, its no coincidence. Logical and critical thinking have nothing to do with it. Just plain ol' hedonism.

No. That is another lie by you. (Which is a sin).

1) Everyone is born Atheist.
2) I became an Atheist due to a LACK OF EVIDENCE. - In short, I became a man of Science.

Porn having an influence on belief is correlation and not causation, you haven't provided evidence for this claim.

Lavamelon said:

Zeus had his 15 minutes of fame. But now he is nobody important. Poor guy.

As for the Abrahamic God, things keep looking brighter and brighter. 52 percent of the worlds population currently worship Him, and this is expected to reach 70 percent by 2100. 

Islam is on the verge of conquering Europe, Australia, and USA withing upcoming decades. Much of the world will have Shariah law by then. Good luck comparing that to anything Zeus has done.

Islam or any religion for that matter will not conquer Australia.

We are Australian, we don't pull punches. As a society we don't like religion pushed into our faces.

In saying that, the number of believers is irrelevant.

Remember... 100% of the worlds population thought the Earth was flat once... Science and evidence showcased that was a false Assumption. (You know... Those things you keep doing?)



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

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Nor in the UK, No Religion is the fastest growing in the UK, Lol.

Between 2001 and 2011 there was a 12.4% decrease in Christianity, a 10.3% increase in No Religion and a 1.8% increase in Muslims. Between 2011 and 2021 there was a 13.1% decrease in Christianity, a 12.0% increase in No Religion and a 1.6% increase in Muslims. Most other religions listed only increased by an insignificant amount of 0.1% to 0.2%.



If I secretly developed a cure for cancer, it would be terrible of me to keep that all to myself & not share that great news with the world. Well, mankind has a disease worse than cancer – it’s called sin & death. And the only cure is Jesus Christ. I have a love for fellow mankind, because God loves His creation, so I am compelled to speak the truth.

1 John 4:7-8 states, “Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.” So when I share the true gospel of Jesus Christ, I am showing love. It would be much easier for me to keep silent, but that is indifference, which is the opposite of love. In fact, the last command Jesus gave His followers before He ascended to heaven was the great commission: “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.” (Matthew 28:19).

So born-again Christians are commanded to engage in personal evangelism and share the wonderful news of Jesus. But this act of love must be balanced with truth. Love without truth is unhelpful. And truth without love is unhelpful. We must present the truth in love, no matter how difficult it is for the recipient to hear. And I understand that the truth is difficult for those who are perishing…I really do. We see that all throughout the Bible in both the OT & NT. Do you think the prophets & Jesus & apostles were martyred, because they told people what the people wanted to hear? No, it’s because they boldly proclaimed the truth.

Now truth, by definition, is narrow. 2+2 will always equal 4 and only 4. It will never equal 3 or 5. People are free to believe it equals 3 or 5, but they would be wrong. And it doesn’t matter if they are sincere in their belief. They would be sincerely wrong. And even though they have God-given free will to believe what they want (and no person or government should ever take away that freedom), they are not free from the consequences of their belief.

So when I call out all of the false religions & worldviews, I realize it upsets people. But they need to hear the truth. This may be the only time in your life to get to hear the actual truth. People are free to believe in whatever religion they want (or none at all), but there is no way all, or even some, or even a few, of the religions can be correct. Religious pluralism is a logical impossibility. This is because there are mutually exclusive truth-claims among the world’s religions, and they cannot all be correct. Some religions are monotheistic, such as Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. Others are pantheistic, such as Buddhism and Hinduism.

These core beliefs are incompatible. Not all of them can be true, and in fact, only one can be true. The differences are stark and irreconcilable. And the conflicting ideas are multiplied once other issues are thrown into the mix. What does it mean to be human? Where did we come from? What is our purpose in life? Why is there pain and suffering? What happens when we die? Do we need to be saved? And if so, how? There is deep divergence among the world’s religions & worldviews on such crucial questions. So much so, that the mere thought – all religions are the same and lead to the same path and have the same God – seems utterly untenable. The real truth is that people who say all religions are essentially the same have not studied religions very closely at all.

And too often, Christians are viewed as intolerant and narrow-minded for not accepting other religions. However, this is inaccurate and poorly thought out. Born-again Christians have no problem with someone adhering to a different religion or worldview. Hopefully, we will attempt to share the Gospel with them in order to persuade them of the truth. But we do not attack them if they reject it. Rather, we pray for them and demonstrate Christ’s love for them through our actions. But just because we disagree with someone does not make us intolerant. In fact, the pluralist who accuses Christians of intolerance is actually guilty of intolerance! He is refusing to allow Christians to hold to their beliefs. True tolerance does not require that we consider other religions to be true alongside Christianity. Disagreement and intolerance are completely different concepts.

The world & Satan will continually push us toward pluralism, but we must stand firm in our faith. We must always remember that Christianity is unique in its view of God, man, Christ, salvation, and Scripture. There is no other religion even remotely like it. Christianity is based on a Holy Trinity, the utter sinfulness of humanity, an inspired & inerrant Bible, an incarnate Christ-redeemer, and salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Jesus Christ alone according to the Bible alone. Christianity stands above all other man-made and Satan-influenced religions & worldviews. They are false, and their followers stand in darkness and face doom. But we stand in the light, because Jesus is light and truth.

Jesus is also exclusive. He stated in John 14:6, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” He is THE way, not a way. And He is the ONLY way. Everyone must make a decision about Christ. And everyone decides to either accept Him or reject Him. And to not make a decision about Him (agnostics, for example) means one has rejected Him. So in our evangelism, we must make clear the religious differences, reject pluralism, and embrace the exclusivity of Christianity & Jesus.

I get why modern society loves the allure of pluralism. It is a guilt-free, fault-free, consequence-free worldview. Everyone can experience “redemption” no matter the path. Morality is what one wants to make of it. It is exactly the kind of worldview that appeals to a lost sinner. And in my experience, people believe what they want to believe. Pluralism sounds good and virtuous. At first glance, it appears to be equitable & tolerant & loving. Of course, it is none of these things. But to someone who does not spend much time questioning it, and who already has a predisposed favorable bias, they are likely going to embrace the pluralist worldview.

Jesus taught in Matthew 7:13-14, “Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.” Pluralists will point to this statement and claim that Jesus was narrow-minded. And they will likewise accuse His followers. But as Christians, how are we to respond? Scripture is clear on this: we must “stand firm in our faith” (1 Corinthians 16:13), “speak the truth in love” (Ephesians 4:15), “love our enemies” (Matthew 5:44), and “show respect to all people” (1 Peter 2:17).



JamesCantu said:

If I secretly developed a cure for cancer, it would be terrible of me to keep that all to myself & not share that great news with the world. Well, mankind has a disease worse than cancer – it’s called sin & death. And the only cure is Jesus Christ. I have a love for fellow mankind, because God loves His creation, so I am compelled to speak the truth.

1) You believe in religion and not science and evidence, your response to health is prayer and not medicine... You won't be curing cancer.

2) Sin is a religious invention, there is no evidence of it.

3) Even if you are religious... You will eat, shit and die like the rest of us, I work in this field... And Death does not discriminate.
Your unproven false God isn't going to save you.

JamesCantu said:

Now truth, by definition, is narrow. 2+2 will always equal 4 and only 4. It will never equal 3 or 5. People are free to believe it equals 3 or 5, but they would be wrong. And it doesn’t matter if they are sincere in their belief. They would be sincerely wrong. And even though they have God-given free will to believe what they want (and no person or government should ever take away that freedom), they are not free from the consequences of their belief.

Truth has evidence.
Your God, your religion, your Jesus, your Heaven, your Hell, your everything else... Is factually not the "truth" as it lacks any supporting evidence.
You are blinded by that.

You are taking 5+7 and thinking it equals 2... And everything else is just wrong.

Remember... The Bible can't even get basic Math right.

JamesCantu said:

The world & Satan will continually push us toward pluralism, but we must stand firm in our faith. We must always remember that Christianity is unique in its view of God, man, Christ, salvation, and Scripture. There is no other religion even remotely like it. Christianity is based on a Holy Trinity, the utter sinfulness of humanity, an inspired & inerrant Bible, an incarnate Christ-redeemer, and salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Jesus Christ alone according to the Bible alone. Christianity stands above all other man-made and Satan-influenced religions & worldviews. They are false, and their followers stand in darkness and face doom. But we stand in the light, because Jesus is light and truth.

There is no evidence of a Satan.
The Bible is the basis of your Cult. You are part of a cult.

I do request you refrain from posting bible verses, we don't care for it, it's a waste of time and text.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Ryuu96 said:
Lavamelon said:

There is plenty of evidence for God. the Catholic Church recently declared their first millennial saint Carlo Acutis after two scientifically verified were attributed to him.

Pope Leo announces when British-born 'God's Influencer' Carlo Acutis will finally be canonised | Daily Mail Online

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlo_Acutis

Carlo Acutis is known for two significant miracles attributed to his intercession:
  • Healing of a Brazilian Child: A boy named Mattheus was healed from a serious birth defect called an annular pancreas after he and his mother asked Carlo Acutis to pray for his healing. 
  • Recovery of a Costa Rican Woman: The sudden recovery of a woman suffering from a head condition is also attributed to Carlo Acutis' intercession
These miracles contributed to his beatification by Pope Francis on October 10, 2020, and he is considered a potential patron saint of the internet. 

I don't think you know what evidence is because neither of these two examples count as evidence, more like a Catholic Church being desperate, these examples can be easily explained by a simple combination of mathematical odds, the brilliant work of the medical professionals and potential of the human body to recover from horrific injuries, diseases, etc, in rare cases.

For odds, how many people at any one time are praying to specific "saints"? Tens of thousands? Hundreds of thousands? Millions? At some point, one of them is bound to "pray" at the same time as having a family member recover, that is called pure mathematical coincidence, the odds are there to allow the possibility of one hit happening. Now imagine how many people have prayed to Carlo and their family members or friends have still died or not recovered? Hundreds? Thousands? A 1000 to 1 chance is still a 1 chance of happening, it is not proof of a God, but simple maths.

For the woman, she suffered a bleeding on the brain after crashing during a cycling accident, the surgeons operated on her, 6 days after surgery her mother prayed to Carlo, but no she did not "suddenly recover" she apparently woke up on that day, the 6th day after surgery, the next day she recovered use of her upper limbs and partial speech recovery, a further 10 days later she was discharged from the ICU (so again, not a sudden recovery) and it does not say where she then went (discharge from the ICU does not mean discharge from hospital). 16 days post surgery showed that the surgery was a success and the bleed on her brain had resolved itself. After that she spent a week in physical therapy also.

So combine all of that and we have.

  • She was discharged from the ICU 10 days after the prayer / 16 days after the emergency surgery.
  • Bleed on her brain resolved itself 10 days after the prayer / 16 days after the emergency surgery.
  • At minimum in total to "recover" (unknown just how much she has recovered) = 17 days after the prayer / 23 days after emergency surgery.  

This woman had a low chance of survival but low does not mean impossible, she was the *1* when we say "1 in 1000"

As for the pancreatic case, the mother claimed she had been prayed for her son for years, so what, God ignored her for all those years until she prayed to some random dead kid? Because in both of these cases, this kid never met either of these people, they simply prayed to him, so the dude is even more hacked than Jesus Christ himself who had people trekking miles to have him heal them, Lol.

And also the kid was killed at 15 by God via Acute promyelocytic leukaemia, I suppose we should thank God for striking the kid down with a horrific disease all so he can apparently cure two people out of billions. It started with an inflammation of his throat, he was diagnosed with parotitis, his condition worsened, he had blood in his urine, he later was too weak to leave bed, he was then diagnosed with leukaemia, he was put on a ventilator, finally falling into a coma, undergoing blood cleansing treatment after a haemorrhage and then he passed away, thanks God!

He seemed like a nice kid and it's sad he went out so awfully, I'm happy religion helped him find comfort in his final moments, but the Catholic Church is using him as a tool for PR, I mean shit he has even been dubbed "the first gamer saint" it's an attempt to appeal to a younger audience by the Catholic Church. What saved the woman above was the amazing doctors and her body, not God.

The Catholic Church has access to the medical records of these incidents, they would know more about it and me and you. We don't have access to the same level of information.

The Catholic Church doesn't declare miracles unless they are deemed impossible, not improbable, big difference. Improbable means something that is unlikely to happen, but can still happen (such as winning the lottery, or meeting Keanu Reeves at your local coffee shop, these things are unlikely to happen, but not impossible to happen since they don't contradict the laws of nature). Impossible means something that could never happen (such as jumping all the way to the moon, or swimming across the Atlantic Ocean within 20 minutes, these things would be impossible to anybody to accomplish since the laws of physics wont allow people to do these.)

Carlo Acutis would be proud of how the Church declared him a saint.



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Pemalite said:
Lavamelon said:

Critical thinking has nothing to do with it. There are plenty of educated people who believe in religion. Plus we have evidence that p*rn reduces belief in God.

Porn vs. Religion | Psychology Today

I'm not making this up, feel free to do your own research, we have evidence that p*rn (as well as other forms of hedonism) reduce belief in God.

Hedonism is absolutely a factor when it comes to atheism.

Who cares if it reduces belief in God? YOU CANT EVEN PROVE YOUR GOD EXISTS.
People like you are the problem and why there are more Atheists today.

There is literally nothing to believe in.

Lavamelon said:

There is plenty of evidence for God. the Catholic Church recently declared their first millennial saint Carlo Acutis after two scientifically verified were attributed to him.

Pope Leo announces when British-born 'God's Influencer' Carlo Acutis will finally be canonised | Daily Mail Online

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlo_Acutis

Not scientifically verified. No evidence. Nothing you said reinforces that there is anything scientifically verified.
WHERE is the whitepaper?

What a load of crap.

Lavamelon said:

I am more religious than my parents are. My dad rarely goes to church, but my mother goes weekly. Either way, I am more religious than both of them combined. 

That likely explains why you were indoctrinated into a cult at a young age, your parents already had that predisposition.

Lavamelon said:

If religious people become atheists later in life, its because they want to live hedonistic lifestyles. There is evidence to show that viewing online p*rn can weaken peoples belief in God. Ever wonder why atheism rates have gone up as soon as p*rn became more widespread? Trust me, its no coincidence. Logical and critical thinking have nothing to do with it. Just plain ol' hedonism.

No. That is another lie by you. (Which is a sin).

1) Everyone is born Atheist.
2) I became an Atheist due to a LACK OF EVIDENCE. - In short, I became a man of Science.

Porn having an influence on belief is correlation and not causation, you haven't provided evidence for this claim.

Lavamelon said:

Zeus had his 15 minutes of fame. But now he is nobody important. Poor guy.

As for the Abrahamic God, things keep looking brighter and brighter. 52 percent of the worlds population currently worship Him, and this is expected to reach 70 percent by 2100. 

Islam is on the verge of conquering Europe, Australia, and USA withing upcoming decades. Much of the world will have Shariah law by then. Good luck comparing that to anything Zeus has done.

Islam or any religion for that matter will not conquer Australia.

We are Australian, we don't pull punches. As a society we don't like religion pushed into our faces.

In saying that, the number of believers is irrelevant.

Remember... 100% of the worlds population thought the Earth was flat once... Science and evidence showcased that was a false Assumption. (You know... Those things you keep doing?)

It IS scientifically verified. The Catholic Church uses the scientific method to determine if miracles are verified. You are assuming they just sit there and say "yeah it looks like a miracle, so lets just go with that". Sorry, but thats not how it works. They actually do scientific verification on things.

The Science of Miracles: How the Vatican Decides | Live Science

What’s a ‘miracle’? Here’s how the Catholic Church decides

The Pope’s scientists study miracles

Oh, and the Catholic Church hires non-Catholics to help them verify miracles. Why non-Catholics? To prove they are not being biased. So that argument falls out the window, if you were hoping to use that.

And yes, Islam is taking over Australia. Here in Sydney, we have entire regions which are completely Muslim, no women walking around in revealing clothes. You cannot distinguish these places from Saudi Arabia or Bangladesh. As a Christian, I trust these Muslims more than you. Muslims are respectable towards me and my beliefs, unlike you. Australia has a fertility rate of 1.6 children per woman (below replacement rate), they need Muslim immigrants to help keep population steady, so the process of Islam becoming the majority are coming true. Good news if you ask me.



Lavamelon said:
curl-6 said:

Pretty much, I don't believe in the Christian God for the same reason Christians don't believe in Zeus, Jupiter, Horus, or any of the other countless other gods and goddesses throughout human culture.

How is that the same thing? I don't believe in Zeus, Horus etc because they do not have any influence in this world, but the Abrahamic God does. Look at how Christianity and Islam are constantly making news headlines. Surely a real God would have influence in this world.

A God's "influence" is just people who believe in them acting accordingly. In ancient times, the people who believed in Zeus or Horus influenced their societies the same way as Christians or Muslims today.



Lavamelon said:

It IS scientifically verified. The Catholic Church uses the scientific method to determine if miracles are verified. You are assuming they just sit there and say "yeah it looks like a miracle, so lets just go with that". Sorry, but thats not how it works. They actually do scientific verification on things.

The Science of Miracles: How the Vatican Decides | Live Science

What’s a ‘miracle’? Here’s how the Catholic Church decides

The Pope’s scientists study miracles

Oh, and the Catholic Church hires non-Catholics to help them verify miracles. Why non-Catholics? To prove they are not being biased. So that argument falls out the window, if you were hoping to use that.

And yes, Islam is taking over Australia. Here in Sydney, we have entire regions which are completely Muslim, no women walking around in revealing clothes. You cannot distinguish these places from Saudi Arabia or Bangladesh. As a Christian, I trust these Muslims more than you. Muslims are respectable towards me and my beliefs, unlike you. Australia has a fertility rate of 1.6 children per woman (below replacement rate), they need Muslim immigrants to help keep population steady, so the process of Islam becoming the majority are coming true. Good news if you ask me.

I see they are all (99.9%) about unexplained medical healing, with the caveat that it's only a miracle if there was prayer (to the 'correct' deity) involved. (Otherwise it's dark forces??)

That's not a miracle, that's the human body overcoming a deadly illness in ways we don't understand yet. There is no scientific proof that healing was 100% impossible. There is that water doesn't turn into wine on its own. Where did those miracles go?

Anyway the rebuttal is already inside the last article 

“Their work may be considered offensive because it’s based on empirical scientific methods, but the methods are used in the opposite way to what we’re used to seeing.”

”Scientific methods are normally used to explain things,” says the researcher. “But the miracle commission uses these methods to give colour to the idea that some things cannot be explained. Science is being turned on its head, so to speak.”

What they would have to proof is that the person could not have survived without a miracle. Not that they can't find an explanation how he did survive.



Part of religion is creating problems that the religion can only provide the solution for. Like inventing sin and eternal damnation. Praying on people's guilt and shame, promising a cure for your conscience telling you you did wrong. Confess and be forgiven, wash away your guilt. While good for the mind not to dwell on the little stuff, sadly it is also used to absolve people of major crimes against humanity.

Capitalism actually borrows a lot from religion, in shaming people to buy crap. Like teeth whitening strips, Ozempic and other weight loss 'cures' (after creating the problem of cheap unhealthy food), full body deoderant (you need more) and so on. 

Religion is quite capitalistic as well, hoarding wealth. I've visited Lourdes in my youth, took part of a procession there. I've never seen so many 'souvenir' shops selling trinkets. My mother actually bought a plastic Maria statue, filled it with water from the holy spring and kept it in the car as 'protection'. Well she got hit anyway, car totaled (declared anyway) as she didn't pay attention turning onto a 80 kph roadway. She was fine though (other driver as well), is that a miracle? Or science: Crumple zones, air bags, seat belts, and quick deployment of rescue services. 

Anyway it all didn't make me religious nor make my mother attend church. (Her mother did)



Islam is co-existing here. You see more mosques popping up, a nice counter balance to all the churches. Our school is plenty diverse, and also no issues with trans kids, everyone is welcome. I just love the extra food choices in the supermarkets :)

Our schools aren't very good at education imo, but at least they are good at teaching inclusion and respect for each other. 



Lavamelon said:
Ryuu96 said:

For the woman, she suffered a bleeding on the brain after crashing during a cycling accident, the surgeons operated on her, 6 days after surgery her mother prayed to Carlo, but no she did not "suddenly recover" she apparently woke up on that day, the 6th day after surgery, the next day she recovered use of her upper limbs and partial speech recovery, a further 10 days later she was discharged from the ICU (so again, not a sudden recovery) and it does not say where she then went (discharge from the ICU does not mean discharge from hospital). 16 days post surgery showed that the surgery was a success and the bleed on her brain had resolved itself. After that she spent a week in physical therapy also.

So combine all of that and we have.

  • She was discharged from the ICU 10 days after the prayer / 16 days after the emergency surgery.
  • Bleed on her brain resolved itself 10 days after the prayer / 16 days after the emergency surgery.
  • At minimum in total to "recover" (unknown just how much she has recovered) = 17 days after the prayer / 23 days after emergency surgery.  

-Snip-

The Catholic Church has access to the medical records of these incidents, they would know more about it and me and you. We don't have access to the same level of information.

The Catholic Church doesn't declare miracles unless they are deemed impossible, not improbable, big difference. Improbable means something that is unlikely to happen, but can still happen (such as winning the lottery, or meeting Keanu Reeves at your local coffee shop, these things are unlikely to happen, but not impossible to happen since they don't contradict the laws of nature). Impossible means something that could never happen (such as jumping all the way to the moon, or swimming across the Atlantic Ocean within 20 minutes, these things would be impossible to anybody to accomplish since the laws of physics wont allow people to do these.)

Carlo Acutis would be proud of how the Church declared him a saint.

Just to be clear, the Catholic Church does not have automatic access to medical records unless the patient has provided them with such, now given the patient was already devoutly religious, I'm not surprised the patient too would claim it was a miracle, but I have nothing to go on other than the word of two devoutly religious people, I have not seen the doctors opinion at all and her recovery in itself was vague as reported by the Catholic Church itself, I can't find any other sources than Catholic websites who report on her recovery vaguely.

"The Catholic Church doesn't declare miracles unless they are deemed impossible"

Then why is the woman with a bleed on the brain declared as a miracle? Her condition was NOT labelled as impossible to recover from, only "low-odds" and she had emergency surgery specifically to recover from it, Lol. And thousands of people every single year recover from bleeding on the brain, so already you're making a contradiction, they declared an "unlikely" scenario as a miracle.

Lavamelon said:

It IS scientifically verified. The Catholic Church uses the scientific method to determine if miracles are verified. You are assuming they just sit there and say "yeah it looks like a miracle, so lets just go with that". Sorry, but thats not how it works. They actually do scientific verification on things.

The Science of Miracles: How the Vatican Decides | Live Science

What’s a ‘miracle’? Here’s how the Catholic Church decides

The Pope’s scientists study miracles

Oh, and the Catholic Church hires non-Catholics to help them verify miracles. Why non-Catholics? To prove they are not being biased. So that argument falls out the window, if you were hoping to use that.

And yes, Islam is taking over Australia. Here in Sydney, we have entire regions which are completely Muslim, no women walking around in revealing clothes. You cannot distinguish these places from Saudi Arabia or Bangladesh. As a Christian, I trust these Muslims more than you. Muslims are respectable towards me and my beliefs, unlike you. Australia has a fertility rate of 1.6 children per woman (below replacement rate), they need Muslim immigrants to help keep population steady, so the process of Islam becoming the majority are coming true. Good news if you ask me.

No it really isn't, Lol. And yes that is exactly what they do. Out of desperation in seeing people move away from religion, they decided to make a young "gamer kid" a Saint in an attempt to appeal to a younger audience, over 10 years after his death, because they heard about 2 people praying to him and by a "miracle" recovering, Lol.

I started reading the first link then I got to here...

Nearly all, or "99.9 percent of these are medical miracles," O'Neill said. "They need to be spontaneous, instantaneous and complete healing. Doctors have to say, 'We don't have any natural explanation of what happened,'" O'Neill said.

The woman who recovered from a head injury, her recovery was neither spontaneous, instantaneous or a complete healing. As I have shown above, it took at minimum 17 days after the prayer for her to recover "fully" and that is just the minimum amount of time because we don't even know if she FULLY recovered after 17 days or simply left the hospital. Even after the prayer, she only woke up, with partial speech ability and only usage of her upper limbs, does that sound like a instantaneous and complete healing to you? We also have a natural explanation for what happened in this case, she had damn surgery to fix the bleed on her brain, that's the explanation for her recovery! Lol.

A woman whose breast cancer was cured wouldn't qualify, for instance, if she was given a 10 percent chance of survival — she would need to be told there was no chance of survival before any divine intervention, said the Rev. Stephan Bevans, a theology professor at the Catholic Theological Union.

Okay, again, so why does this woman count? Because doctors NEVER told her she had no chance of survival.

The miracle involved the healing of a young woman, 21, from Costa Rica, studying in Florence, Italy, who fell from her bicycle in July of 2022. She incurred a severe head injury. She was taken to the hospital, where her skull was opened to relieve pressure on the brain, but her situation was critical. The accident occurred on July 2, 2022, and a co-worker of the girl's mother immediately began to pray to Blessed Carlo. Six days later, the mom went to Assisi to pray at Blessed Carlo's tomb. That same day, the girl began to breathe on her own. Within 10 days, she was discharged from ICU; the next month, she was discharged from rehab after only a week, due to her recovery.

None of this is an instantaneous complete healing for a condition with 0 chance of recovery.



If this woman's mother prayed to Carlo and on the exact same day of the prayer, her daughter woke right up from surgery, the bleeding had vanished and she darted out of her bed doing cartwheels and backflips then MAYBE I'd think "That's kind of weird" Lmao. But this isn't even what happened! Why is she counted?!

I'm not a medical professional, the kid suddenly recovering from a pancreatic disease and no longer vomiting I can't explain yet (although I'm willing to bet it can be explained) but in the case of this woman, she literally had fricking surgery specifically to help her recover! At no point did the doctors claim her recovery was impossible! And even then, it took her weeks at minimum to fully recover, you know why? Because she had surgery for this exact purpose! Lmao.

Day 1

  • Woman Has Head Injury
  • Woman Has Emergency Surgery.
  • Co-Worker of Girl's Mother Prayed Immediately.

Day 6

  • Carlo Ignored Co-Workers Prayers For Six Days Apparently.
  • Woman's Mother Went to Pray at Carlo's Tomb Six Days Later.
  • Woman Woke Up.

Day 7

  • Woman Recovered Usage of Upper Limbs and Partial Speech

Day 17

  • Woman Was Discharged From ICU
  • Brain Bleed Had Resolved Itself

Day 24

  • Discharged From Rehab

So like I said, nothing about this miracle was instant healing nor was it impossible.

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How long it takes to recover varies from person to person. Some people may feel better within a few weeks or months, while others may never make a full recovery even after many years.

Subdural Haematoma - Recovery - NHS

I would like to read about this "miracle case" not from a clearly religious website though, which ironically is where I've only been able to source all this stuff from which is giving me the ability to debunk it, Lol. Look, I have a disability, pray for me and if my disability is suddenly cured then I'll believe you, Lol. Cause my disability as far as I am aware has a 0% chance of just randomly fixing itself, Lmao. That'd be a real miracle. Then I'll start believing in God.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 27 June 2025