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the-pi-guy said:
bdbdbd said:

Ok, after reading the thread this far: yes, the term woke doesn't make sense at all, because it largely refers to "social justice" policies you see the "left" wing in the USA supporting. However, the policies or rhetoric demanding the policies are often self-contradicting: people say they want sexism to end and demand equality, but at the same time "historical wrongness" needs to be corrected, so as long as there's been more men than women in positions of power, we need to choose only women to positions of power. Women are oppressed in the muslim world, so western women need privileges to combat global inequality. Minorities aren't represented as much as the majority, so we need DEI hires to have equal representations. Society needs atheism, but it's islamophobia. And so on.

It seems to me that some of your "contradictions" are either made up or are misunderstandings. 

I don't know anyone who is arguing "only women should be in power".

"Women are oppressed in the muslim world, so western women need privileges to combat global inequality" - like what privileges? 

"so we need DEI hires to have equal representations" - I don't think anyone has this expectation of "equal representation for everyone" 

"Society needs atheism, but it's islamophobia" 

This sentence is super vague, and could be talking about different things. But in general the difference is personal choice, and that's not a contradiction. 

If you want to personally be a Muslim or Christian, that's your freedom and you shouldn't be harassed or penalized for that. But if you want to try forcing someone else to be Muslim or Christian, that's a problem. That's not contradictive. I am personally opposed to smoking, but I'm not going to push for smoking to be illegal.

bdbdbd said:

Someone mentioned that people don''t complain about woke when a game (or a movie) is good, and I agree on that one. That's largely because good games and movies tend not to make a number about it's character's otherness.

You say that and yet people commonly criticize games/movie/etc for having "otherness" that they feel isn't justified. 

The apparent contradiction is that a movie has to justify a character being different in order to make sense, but if they do that, then it becomes a bad one.


Frankly I think a lot of these complaints are manufactured. People are more likely to make a bigger deal out of something when it is brought to their attention. 

bdbdbd said:

In the end, If you want to see Europeans in movies, you need to watch European movies, If you want to see Africans in movies, you need to watch African movies, If you want to see Asians in movies, you need to watch Asian movies, If you want to see Americans on movies, tough luck; there's DEI hires with Asians, Africans and Europeans, with the occasional jew in them.

How does this work? 
Can a white person make a movie about World War 2 where they show different scenes that include Japanese actors? Or is that getting too far into Asian movie territory? 

If I wanted to make a movie where an American moves to Japan and falls in love with a Japanese woman, am I allowed to do that? Am I allowed to write the woman's lines myself? Do I have to find a Japanese woman to write with to write her lines? 

The bizarre segregation is starting to feel kind of woke. 

Or are we arguing for censorship here, where we aren't allowed to tell these kinds of stories? 

I know you're not trying to argue for those things. But we live in a very globally connected world, people both want to write all kinds of different stories, and people want to consume different kinds of stories. Even on the individual level, most people don't want to consume 30 varieties of the same story. So people are going to want to write diverse things. People are also going to want to ask for diverse things, and buy diverse things, which incentivizes companies to make diverse things. Sometimes that means different stories, different characters, different gameplay mechanics, etc.

I've met a lot of people who argue only women should be in positions of power because of historical wrongness needs to corrected. Apparently the "future is female" is some kind if a subset of this attitude.

Actually you ARE being harassed for being a religious person and you're expected to be an atheist, but at the same time calling out religions for their bullshit is islamophobia, according to the excact same people who think religions are bullsit. And I'm not even exaggarating.

30 years ago nobody cared who played who and wrote the story as long as the movie was good. Today it's "blackface" or "cultural appropriation" if some characted doesn't play some certain bracket reserved for his or her otherness. Squid Game is being criticized because there's a dude playing a trans, instead of trans playing trans. 

It's a good question whether you can write a story about someone that someone else think you can't identify as/with. I would guess it's not appropriate - if it's not now, it soon might be. 



Ei Kiinasti.

Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.

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Ryuu96 said:
bdbdbd said:

When jews are killed in masses, you can call them victims and blame nazis, so that the left can put favourable policies in place due to antisemitism. Every other time, they're the evil people who rule the world, so you can chant "from river to sea" and support their genocide.

Antisemitism didn't go anywhere after WW2, people just learned how to benefit from it. If recall Israelism by Army of Lovers was even banned in the US in the 90's, and that song is good representation of attitudes towards jewish in Europe - or atleast in the more left-leaning Northern Europe. 

So you're confusing criticism of Israel's government and specifically, Netanyahu, with antisemitism?

I don't think I said anything about Netanyahu or Israel's government. You can criticise Israel's government and Netanyahu without supporting Israeli genocide. As long as I remember, antisionism have been an excuse for antisemitism: "I don't support the existence of the country of Israel", but there's no solution what should happen to the people after eradicating Israel.



Ei Kiinasti.

Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.

bdbdbd said:
Machiavellian said:

So actually being a citizen, born and raised in America doesn't define you as being an American?  Or does it have to be defined by some political lean whether you are a American or not.  Not sure what makes or not make sense in your use of wokeness here.  Can you define that better.

It does make you a national of some American country, but it does nothing to your ethnicity. 

Again, what is American ethnicity? What does that mean?

Native Americans? 



sundin13 said:
bdbdbd said:

I'm talking about ethnicity, not where you were born or where you live. I know in USAn political rhetoric everyone needs to be an American with heavy identity politics. That's something that doesn't make any sense in wokeness. 

So do all American movies need to star Native Americans to not be woke? 

I'm confused, as outside of indigenous contexts, "American" as an ethnicity doesn't really mean much. Just tell me who you consider to be American...

They don't. The point was, that if you think there's not enough Africans in movies, you should watch African movies - there are lots of Africans is such movies. Is you think Asians aren't represented enough, you should watch Asian movies, they have lots of Asians. If you think there aren't enough Europeans in movies, you should watch European movies, because they have plenty of Europeans. There's no need to have people of certain ethnicities in films, because you can find films where such people are represented when you watch THEIR domestic films. The only ones that currently don't get representation are ethnic Americans because they've been largely genocided by Europeans and Africans. 



Ei Kiinasti.

Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.

bdbdbd said:
Ryuu96 said:

So you're confusing criticism of Israel's government and specifically, Netanyahu, with antisemitism?

I don't think I said anything about Netanyahu or Israel's government. You can criticise Israel's government and Netanyahu without supporting Israeli genocide. As long as I remember, antisionism have been an excuse for antisemitism: "I don't support the existence of the country of Israel", but there's no solution what should happen to the people after eradicating Israel.

Then I'm not sure what you're talking about because I think you'll find that most on the left are not antisemitic, nor have an issue with Jews or "support Israeli genocide" but what they do is rightfully criticise Israel's government and Netanyahu and guess what, so do a lot of Jewish people as well. Very few on the left are going out to chant in support of genocide of Israel, Wtf? They're mainly just telling Israel to stop fucking bombing the shit out of all its neighbours, stop stealing land and stop with the disproportional responses.

Yes Jews were victims during WW2 and the Nazis were bastards so we stopped them. Pointing out that Israel has a lot of control over America and some other countries though is not antisemitic, that is just a fact and we're specifically talking about Israel here, we're not saying "Jews control the world" but "Israel the country has too much influence over America"

People who are advocating for the genocide of Israel or whatever you claim, are likely not leftists to begin with and are more likely jihadist extremists, since when were those guys left wing? Yes, I consider Hamas, Hezbollah, Houthis to be terrorists but I can and will still criticise Israel's government, and largely Netanyahu, who by the way, if not for this conflict would likely be heading out the door, the man has already had multiple protests against him and is facing multiple corruption charges.



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Pemalite said:
Machiavellian said:

I have to disagree with the Baptism for Christianity as you do not have to do it to be a Baptist.  Christianity is probably the most lose when it comes to traditions and practices since there are so many different denominations.  Those denominations just teach in a different style more than anything else but there are no criteria you need in order to call yourself one of those denonminations. 

Baptist is a denomination... Aka. A "variant" of the Christian religion/Bible interpretation.
Baptism is a process for "recruiting" someone to join said religion.

And you are right, there are a ton of denominations... Over 45,000 in-fact using quick google-fu.
But Muslims and Jewish also have different denominations as well... And whilst not as many in sheer number as the Christian religion, they do have significant variances in traditions, recruitment and religious rules/requirements/regulations/expectations.

My parents forced me to join a Church when I was a child, 7th day Adventist to be exact which are extremely conservative in it's ideology, right down to requiring a baptism to join it. - I would even go as far to call this Church a cult.

Either way, their attempts at indoctrination failed on this Atheist... Likely made easier when they tried to preach to me that Homosexuality is a choice and that it is an abomination.

bdbdbd said:

It's ethnoreligious group, much like Hindus. In the US, it seems that the jews are considered an oppressed minority, whereas in Europe only a dead jew is a good jew - for the left atleast - because that's when you can call victimhood. The same people who chant "from river to sea", are people who are worried about increasing antisemitism. And that's wokeness.

If you go back to my previous posts, I called it an ethnoreligious group.
And no. It's not "wokeness". Which is a bullshit term anyway.

As for Europe and the Jews... There has already been a war over it, world war 2 to be exact. Europe supported the Jewish.

Cyran said:

Not a race but Eastern European Jew for example consider a ethnicity or at the very least there is something in my DNA linking me to that group of people.  I sent in a DNA kit and 100% eastern European Jew is what the results said so there clearly something in my DNA they looking at.  

As per the evidence I provided earlier, they share common ancestry with the Arabs.

Actually Europe did not support jews. Nazis had the same attitude towards jews as everyone else. WW2 was continuation to WW1 where Europe went from having a few empires to many nation states. The support for jews came after WW2, this is why the British gave jews Israel. 

Wokeness is bullshit term, but it also describes this "social justice" you see quite commonly these days. 



Ei Kiinasti.

Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.

bdbdbd said:
Ryuu96 said:

What the fuck are you blabbering on about?

When jews are killed in masses, you can call them victims and blame nazis, so that the left can put favourable policies in place due to antisemitism. Every other time, they're the evil people who rule the world, so you can chant "from river to sea" and support their genocide.

Antisemitism didn't go anywhere after WW2, people just learned how to benefit from it. If recall Israelism by Army of Lovers was even banned in the US in the 90's, and that song is good representation of attitudes towards jewish in Europe - or atleast in the more left-leaning Northern Europe. 

Where are Israeli people being killed in masses? 

Israel has most of the power in the Middle East. They are killing orders of magnitude more Palestinians, most of which are women and children. 



bdbdbd said:
sundin13 said:

So do all American movies need to star Native Americans to not be woke? 

I'm confused, as outside of indigenous contexts, "American" as an ethnicity doesn't really mean much. Just tell me who you consider to be American...

They don't. The point was, that if you think there's not enough Africans in movies, you should watch African movies - there are lots of Africans is such movies. Is you think Asians aren't represented enough, you should watch Asian movies, they have lots of Asians. If you think there aren't enough Europeans in movies, you should watch European movies, because they have plenty of Europeans. There's no need to have people of certain ethnicities in films, because you can find films where such people are represented when you watch THEIR domestic films. The only ones that currently don't get representation are ethnic Americans because they've been largely genocided by Europeans and Africans. 

What the fuck is an ethnic American?



You know what, I'm starting to agree! If people want to see more Americans in films they should watch the Native American films, all ~5 of them that are made every year, the Americans from now on can only make films starring Native Americans, it's the least they can do after how they treated them. The Brits should pack their bags and leave too! I demand no more British actors in American movies! Consider it payback for kicking us out back in the 1700s! You don't want to be ruled under us? Then you don't get our actors! Down with Hollywood!

Last edited by Ryuu96 - 4 days ago

Austin Powers...A British Spy...Played by a Canadian...

Made by an American Company! OH GOD IT GETS WORSE!

Last edited by Ryuu96 - 4 days ago