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Forums - Sony Discussion - PS5 Pro is still far cheaper than a PC

Chrkeller said:

You can argue all you want, but you are wrong.

Palworld absolutely would not run on my PC until I found the correct driver.  This does not happen on consoles.  Console owners don't have to roll back drivers 

There are plenty of instances where console games have been inoperable on launch. - I've already listed a heap so no need to continue debating the indefensible on this, the evidence has already been provided.

But by throwing "driver rollback" into the argument, you just shifted the goal post.
Nor did I have to do any such thing on my PC anyway, meaning the issue is likely localized to yourself.

Chrkeller said:

Hogwarts was 100% unplayable, crashing every 5 minutes with complete rebuild of shaders.  This doesn't happen on consoles, especially huge massive releases.  Bad port is not equivalent to unplayable.  Hogwarts was 100% unplayable and it was well documented.

Ironically, Hogwarts crashed my Xbox Series X a fair amount. So to assert it doesn't happen on consoles is false.


Chrkeller said:

I prefer PC over console and I will not be returning to consoles.  But claiming there isn't additional maintenance on PC is flatly wrong.  

Maybe it's user error? I don't need to do any extra maintenance to my PC over a console.

Everything is plug and play these days.

Chrkeller said:

Also had to flash the bios to prevent cpu damage.  PC, imo, is superior.  But has additional maintenance.

Never had to update my firmware to avoid any dramas in my 30~ years of PC gaming. - But I also tend to buy reputable well-known, quantifiable parts. (I.E. I know my shit and I investigate before I purchase. I.E. vdroop issues on Gigabyte 990FX UD7 boards)

I am still running stock firmware on my x79 rig which is from 2011.
My AM4 board I have never updated the firmware either.
My AM5 system firmware is also still stock.

No dramas.

I even have my Athlon Thunderbird PC with a 1.2Ghz Athlon, 512MB SD Ram and a Radeon 9800+3dfx voodoo 2 running Windows 98 with archaic drivers/bios, because it simply works.

Chrkeller said:

I've already outlined 3 real life examples of extra maintenance I've had to do with PC gaming, all within 12 months of moving to PC.  None of which I've had to do with consoles over 30 years.

For the BIOS flash, to prevent damage to my CPU, I has issues with my computer turning on for a few weeks.  The computer was on but no display.  I had to reset the BIOS back to factory default settings and retried the newest BIOS update.  

That's not maintenance. You bought hardware that had hardware faults and needed a work around.

Very different.

Chrkeller said:

All this is documented, including Palworld drivers + Hogwarts crashing, in the PC thread....  because I needed help.  Never once had to seek help on getting a console game to run, despite owning over a dozen consoles spread across 30 years.  

And yet... Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony issue firmware updates to resolve stability issues constantly for their consoles.

https://support.xbox.com/en-AU/help/hardware-network/settings-updates/system-updates-2021
Not the "General stability and performance improvements."

You make it sound like consoles are perfect and immune to issues and PC is plagued with them, which is not the case.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

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Pemalite said:
Chrkeller said:

You can argue all you want, but you are wrong.

Palworld absolutely would not run on my PC until I found the correct driver.  This does not happen on consoles.  Console owners don't have to roll back drivers 

There are plenty of instances where console games have been inoperable on launch. - I've already listed a heap so no need to continue debating the indefensible on this, the evidence has already been provided.

But by throwing "driver rollback" into the argument, you just shifted the goal post.
Nor did I have to do any such thing on my PC anyway, meaning the issue is likely localized to yourself.

Chrkeller said:

Hogwarts was 100% unplayable, crashing every 5 minutes with complete rebuild of shaders.  This doesn't happen on consoles, especially huge massive releases.  Bad port is not equivalent to unplayable.  Hogwarts was 100% unplayable and it was well documented.

Ironically, Hogwarts crashed my Xbox Series X a fair amount. So to assert it doesn't happen on consoles is false.


Chrkeller said:

I prefer PC over console and I will not be returning to consoles.  But claiming there isn't additional maintenance on PC is flatly wrong.  

Maybe it's user error? I don't need to do any extra maintenance to my PC over a console.

Everything is plug and play these days.

Chrkeller said:

Also had to flash the bios to prevent cpu damage.  PC, imo, is superior.  But has additional maintenance.

Never had to update my firmware to avoid any dramas in my 30~ years of PC gaming. - But I also tend to buy reputable well-known, quantifiable parts. (I.E. I know my shit and I investigate before I purchase. I.E. vdroop issues on Gigabyte 990FX UD7 boards)

I am still running stock firmware on my x79 rig which is from 2011.
My AM4 board I have never updated the firmware either.
My AM5 system firmware is also still stock.

No dramas.

I even have my Athlon Thunderbird PC with a 1.2Ghz Athlon, 512MB SD Ram and a Radeon 9800+3dfx voodoo 2 running Windows 98 with archaic drivers/bios, because it simply works.

Chrkeller said:

I've already outlined 3 real life examples of extra maintenance I've had to do with PC gaming, all within 12 months of moving to PC.  None of which I've had to do with consoles over 30 years.

For the BIOS flash, to prevent damage to my CPU, I has issues with my computer turning on for a few weeks.  The computer was on but no display.  I had to reset the BIOS back to factory default settings and retried the newest BIOS update.  

That's not maintenance. You bought hardware that had hardware faults and needed a work around.

Very different.

Chrkeller said:

All this is documented, including Palworld drivers + Hogwarts crashing, in the PC thread....  because I needed help.  Never once had to seek help on getting a console game to run, despite owning over a dozen consoles spread across 30 years.  

And yet... Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony issue firmware updates to resolve stability issues constantly for their consoles.

https://support.xbox.com/en-AU/help/hardware-network/settings-updates/system-updates-2021
Not the "General stability and performance improvements."

You make it sound like consoles are perfect and immune to issues and PC is plagued with them, which is not the case.

Lol, pokemon wasn't unplayable.  Hogwarts on PC spent months being unplayable.  Getting 10 minutes of play was best case.  This was well documented all around the internet.  Feel free to educate yourself.  

At this point you are being disingenuous.  Not worth the time as a result.  

I never said PC was plagued nor did I saw consoles were perfect.  I said one required more work, experience and knowledge...  which is 100% true.  

Edit

And implying Intel isn't reputable is hilarious.  

I do think consoles have gotten more troublesome, while PCs have gotten easier.  At some point there will be no differences, but we aren't quite there.  

Last edited by Chrkeller - on 09 October 2024

Pemalite said:

Games are cheaper on PC.
Online is free on PC.
There are free games on PC.
PC has better graphics.
PC has PS5 games.

Where is the advantage of a PS5 Pro?

New games are cheaper on PC.  On PS5 you can get cheap second hand games; which you can't do on PC.

Online is free on PC, but has far, far less features.  F2P games are still free on PS5, and even the low tier online sub on PS5 gives you monthly games, player to player streaming, AND NO HACKERS IN GAMES!  I put that in caps because as someone has plays both, it's a huge deal.

There are free games on PS5 and PC.  Every platform has free games.

PC has better graphics?  Incorrect.  SOME PC's have better graphics, and not as many as PC Master Race fanboys would have you believe according to Steam: https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam

And never forget: https://x.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/436012673243693056



Sony want to make money by selling art, Nintendo want to make money by selling fun, Microsoft want to make money.

only777 said:
Pemalite said:

Games are cheaper on PC.
Online is free on PC.
There are free games on PC.
PC has better graphics.
PC has PS5 games.

Where is the advantage of a PS5 Pro?

New games are cheaper on PC.  On PS5 you can get cheap second hand games; which you can't do on PC.

Online is free on PC, but has far, far less features.  F2P games are still free on PS5, and even the low tier online sub on PS5 gives you monthly games, player to player streaming, AND NO HACKERS IN GAMES!  I put that in caps because as someone has plays both, it's a huge deal.

There are free games on PS5 and PC.  Every platform has free games.

PC has better graphics?  Incorrect.  SOME PC's have better graphics, and not as many as PC Master Race fanboys would have you believe according to Steam: https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam

And never forget: https://x.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/436012673243693056

PC online has less features?  In what regard?



Chrkeller said:
only777 said:

New games are cheaper on PC.  On PS5 you can get cheap second hand games; which you can't do on PC.

Online is free on PC, but has far, far less features.  F2P games are still free on PS5, and even the low tier online sub on PS5 gives you monthly games, player to player streaming, AND NO HACKERS IN GAMES!  I put that in caps because as someone has plays both, it's a huge deal.

There are free games on PS5 and PC.  Every platform has free games.

PC has better graphics?  Incorrect.  SOME PC's have better graphics, and not as many as PC Master Race fanboys would have you believe according to Steam: https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam

And never forget: https://x.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/436012673243693056

PC online has less features?  In what regard?

Well I did actually list one in the text but I'll list them here:

*Share play, so other people can play games on your machine for up to an hour at a time.

*Free microtransaction packs for games like Fortnite, Apex, etc - https://www.playstation.com/en-gb/ps-plus/whats-new/#packs

*Lets not forget that the monthly games are part of the sub.

But feel free to have a look yourself here: https://www.playstation.com/en-gb/ps-plus/#benefits



Sony want to make money by selling art, Nintendo want to make money by selling fun, Microsoft want to make money.

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SvennoJ said:

Next one is gonna be Apple anyway, I'm so done with Windows. How many effing times do I have to decline Windows 11, it's asking (and pre-downloading shit) monthly now. And it's ready to install Win 11 again F off.

Well, if these monthly upgrade-requests already annoy you (they annoy me, too).... good luck with Apple!

From the frying pan into the fire. On my iPad Air, I get an upgrade-request from iOS 10.3.3 to iOS 12.5.7 every effing time I wake it up to use it.

If I should upgrade accidently, that tablet will be a lot slower and I lose access to all my 16-bit apps, f.e. access to the best version of "The Secret of Monkey Island. Special Edition) and by far the best version of "Lost Treasures of Infocom" (27 adventure game classics).



only777 said:

And never forget: https://x.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/436012673243693056

That statement is almost 11 years old and has aged like milk.

Since consoles switched to x86 and PC components, that "optimization" advantage is gone for most third party games and even many first party games. Digital Foundry proved that over and over again.

They can't optimize to one fixed hardware configuration anymore, if they want to keep compatibility options for midcycle refreshes and next-gen consoles.



Conina said:
only777 said:

And never forget: https://x.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/436012673243693056

That statement is almost 11 years old and has aged like milk.

Since consoles switched to X86 and pc components, that "optimization" advantage is gone for most third party games and even many first party games. Digital Foundry proved that over and over again.

You've just made that up and at the same time mis-understood the quote.

A fixed spec machine (Console or Mac) with software optimised for that spec will always out perform a same-spec PC.  That's just how programming works.  If you know what the hardware is going to do when you ask it to do something, you can change excatly what you ask it to get the best result.

As for "Digital Foundry proved this", well you just made that up.  Anyone that has followed their recent coverage on Dragons Dogma 2 will tell you that console optimastion is very much a thing.



Sony want to make money by selling art, Nintendo want to make money by selling fun, Microsoft want to make money.

only777 said:
Chrkeller said:

PC online has less features?  In what regard?

Well I did actually list one in the text but I'll list them here:

*Share play, so other people can play games on your machine for up to an hour at a time.

*Free microtransaction packs for games like Fortnite, Apex, etc - https://www.playstation.com/en-gb/ps-plus/whats-new/#packs

*Lets not forget that the monthly games are part of the sub.

But feel free to have a look yourself here: https://www.playstation.com/en-gb/ps-plus/#benefits

Oh, feature quartet? I'm in.

Steam Families, so other people can play almost all my games for up to infinity hours: https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/593110/view/4605582245626919823

It works in both directions: my brother can play games of my library and I can play games of his library.

Steam Remote Play together: https://store.steampowered.com/remoteplay

Instantly share your Steam local multi-player games with friends over the internet, for free. Using Remote Play Together, one player owns and runs the game, then up to four players — or even more with fast connections — can quickly join in the fun.

Free microtransaction packs for games like Fortnite, Apex, Genshin Impact, etc. with Amazon Prime gaming.... additional to all other Prime benefits.

Also lots of Prime games every month (f.e. all Tomb Raider games)... you keep them, when your subscription runs out.

Free games (and sometimes microtransaction packs) every week in the Epic Games Store.

Free games on GOG.com sometimes.

Free games on Steam sometimes.

Cheap game bundles via Humble Choice subscription... you keep them, when your subscription runs out. 

Cheap game bundles from Fanatical. 



only777 said:
Conina said:

That statement is almost 11 years old and has aged like milk.

Since consoles switched to X86 and pc components, that "optimization" advantage is gone for most third party games and even many first party games. Digital Foundry proved that over and over again.

You've just made that up and at the same time mis-understood the quote.

A fixed spec machine (Console or Mac) with software optimised for that spec will always out perform a same-spec PC.  That's just how programming works.  If you know what the hardware is going to do when you ask it to do something, you can change excatly what you ask it to get the best result.

As for "Digital Foundry proved this", well you just made that up.  Anyone that has followed their recent coverage on Dragons Dogma 2 will tell you that console optimastion is very much a thing.

Probably true, but it ain't 2x.  

Edit

I'm so not that convinced console games are that optimized anymore.  

Last edited by Chrkeller - on 09 October 2024