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Forums - Politics Discussion - 2024 US Presidential Election

Farsala said:
curl-6 said:

The fact this is even close when Trump is such a dumpster fire shows how many folks feel alienated by the left, and represents a failure by the Dems to connect with a large swathe of the population.

Trump is awful, but when you can't convince a comfortable majority of the population that you're a better choice, then you've got problems of your own.

Alternatively, it is Trump's fault that we had to deal with a senile old man for 4 years. And probably have to deal with a not so ideal Kamala Harris.

If the Republicans could come up with a decent candidate then we wouldn't have had such bad Democrat candidates.

To a large degree, this is an accurate post.  Republicans not bouncing Trump when they had a chance was a huge mistake.  He is making it impossible, at least for me, to consider voting GOP.  Heck, I get to vote in NC, and Robinson is a giant no.  So yeah, because of how obscene the GOP has gotten, I am voting default liberal because of lack of option.  This is true.  



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Chrkeller said:

Republicans not bouncing Trump when they had a chance was a huge mistake.

Was it possible for them to do it? I wonder if they did it then trump would somehow overturn it using the justice system or whatever.

It always puzzled me why the GOP never expelled trump from the party. Maybe fear he would run as an independent? 



EnricoPallazzo said:
Chrkeller said:

Republicans not bouncing Trump when they had a chance was a huge mistake.

Was it possible for them to do it? I wonder if they did it then trump would somehow overturn it using the justice system or whatever.

It always puzzled me why the GOP never expelled trump from the party. Maybe fear he would run as an independent? 

He was impeached for Jan 6th....  the GOP had him in the crosshairs.  It would have been super easy to bounce him.  They should have.  I think they underestimated him and figured his political career was over.  

edit

I am personally very tired of EVERYONE underestimating Trump.  

Last edited by Chrkeller - on 29 October 2024

curl-6 said:

The fact this is even close when Trump is such a dumpster fire shows how many folks feel alienated by the left, and represents a failure by the Dems to connect with a large swathe of the population.

Trump is awful, but when you can't convince a comfortable majority of the population that you're a better choice, then you've got problems of your own.

When Trump can run so blatantly on fascism and do well with it, it really is a people problem and not an opposing political party problem. The American people are adults, so there shouldn't be excuses made for them, because it isn't hard at all to recognize that fascism is bad and a terrible option.

The same holds true for all other democracies. Since other countries don't restrict themselves to a two party system like the USA and therefore have multiple options for people who don't like the left, we can tell that there are a lot of people who consciously vote far-right even though there is a conservative option available, so it can't be said that there's an "alienated by the left" problem.

This puts the question in the room why do all parties, except for the far-right ones, have to be (nearly) perfect to be electable while the far-right can coast on bullshit and are forgiven for all the bad and stupid things they do. It's at that point that it becomes clear that there is a people problem, because the judgment by these voters isn't being done on the grounds of reason, fairness or logical consistency. That's also why comedy shows in every democratic country prefer to go to far-right events to pick out people for interviews, because quick contradictions and hilarious statements are inevitable.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV will outsell Super Smash Bros. Brawl. I was wrong.

Why can't Americans get Bernie in, are they crazy?



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Chrkeller said:
EnricoPallazzo said:

Was it possible for them to do it? I wonder if they did it then trump would somehow overturn it using the justice system or whatever.

It always puzzled me why the GOP never expelled trump from the party. Maybe fear he would run as an independent? 

He was impeached for Jan 6th....  the GOP had him in the crosshairs.  It would have been super easy to bounce him.  They should have.  I think they underestimated him and figured his political career was over.  

edit

I am personally very tired of EVERYONE underestimating Trump.  

No, that's not it. The GOP feared that their political existence would be in peril if the senate had ended Trump's political career by making him unable to run for any public office again. Plus some senators probably feared for their safety/lives as well. After all, Trump was able to mobilize people to kill on January 6th, no guarantee that he wouldn't be able to do that again.

But it turned out that Trump-backed candidates ended up losing more often than not afterwards, so really, the GOP overestimated Trump.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV will outsell Super Smash Bros. Brawl. I was wrong.

EnricoPallazzo said:
Chrkeller said:

Republicans not bouncing Trump when they had a chance was a huge mistake.

Was it possible for them to do it? I wonder if they did it then trump would somehow overturn it using the justice system or whatever.

It always puzzled me why the GOP never expelled trump from the party. Maybe fear he would run as an independent? 

If they don’t bend to Trump’s will then he leaves, taking his cult with him and splitting the party in half, which would lead to Democrats winning in blowouts and likely forming supermajorities in Congress.

I was hoping that exact scenario happened after Jan 6 but instead only a couple notable Republicans like Kinzinger & Cheney took a stand and they were kicked out of the party for it.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

Personal opinion, short term loss > long term loss

Kicking Trump out would have had short term damage, but having the party held hostage long term is far more damaging. Most of the time it pays to take the hit early.

And the party would not have split.  A few nuts would have been stubborn, but the vast majority would have jumped back on the train with the next GOP candidate.  Isn't like core GOP voters suddenly would have gone Biden/Harris.  That is a gross overestimation.  



JWeinCom said:
curl-6 said:

The fact this is even close when Trump is such a dumpster fire shows how many folks feel alienated by the left, and represents a failure by the Dems to connect with a large swathe of the population.

Trump is awful, but when you can't convince a comfortable majority of the population that you're a better choice, then you've got problems of your own.

You are assuming that people are informed and reasonable. That is not a safe assumption. 

Few pages ago I posted a poll which showed most people preferred Harris policies when told to vote not knowing whose policy belonged to who, then a page or so ago I posted a Trump voter who outright said that Trump's economy plans would hurt his business but he's voting Trump because immigration and abortion. So yes, a lot of people are uninformed but also, a lot of people are just simply not good people.

When you're voting knowing your business will be hurt but your desire to rip the rights away from women exceeds that...So in fact Trump is hurting this average American voter but this voter doesn't care because "fuck women and immigrants" People keep discounting how easy hate is to sell to the general public and just how hateful human beings can be.

Now that won't be all voters, like I said before, I think if Harris loses it will largely come down to inflation, which Harris has made a core part of her campaigning, even way more than Biden did. But we're still talking millions of people voting for Trump on the simple basis of "Fuck Immigrants" or "I want to take away rights from women" and America is an extremely religious country so it has a lot of Christian extremists.

I strongly disagree that Harris campaign hasn't been trying to reach out to the average American, her policies are far more detailed, far further reaching than Trump's, widely agreed as better than Trump's for the average American, she has been reaching out across the board to Democrats, Republicans, Independents, etc. In fact I've seen more criticism that Harris is reaching out to Republicans TOO much than I do see this criticism expressed in this thread from time to time, Lol.

If American voters are voting for a literal fascist then I ain't blaming Harris, I'm blaming Americans, Lol.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 29 October 2024

RolStoppable said:
curl-6 said:

The fact this is even close when Trump is such a dumpster fire shows how many folks feel alienated by the left, and represents a failure by the Dems to connect with a large swathe of the population.

Trump is awful, but when you can't convince a comfortable majority of the population that you're a better choice, then you've got problems of your own.

This puts the question in the room why do all parties, except for the far-right ones, have to be (nearly) perfect to be electable while the far-right can coast on bullshit and are forgiven for all the bad and stupid things they do. It's at that point that it becomes clear that there is a people problem, because the judgment by these voters isn't being done on the grounds of reason, fairness or logical consistency.

To this point, this is very much true, Lol.

Trump Campaign is like "Fuck Haitians, Fuck Mexicans, Fuck Puerto Ricans, Fuck The Press, Fuck Democrats, Fuck Jews Who Don't Vote For Us, Fuck Palestinians, Fuck Muslims, Fuck Arabs" and the list goes on. Democrats meanwhile have to run an absolutely perfect campaign, where they have to appeal to every single demographic possible and they are trying.

I've never seen Harris talk shit about Republicans, I've never seen Harris talk shit about Jews who don't vote for Democrats, I've not seen Harris attack immigrants across multiple groups (I mean, Trump's rhetoric is basically fuck all immigrants). She has been actively trying to reach out to Republicans while Trump tells Democrats to go fuck themselves.

And somehow it's Democrats fault, Lol.

Democrats also tried to put forth a right-wing border bill which annoyed a lot of the Democrat base, it's always Democrats making compromises for the damn Republicans and never the other way around, it's always Democrats having to upset their own base to compromise with Republicans. It was also Trump who let the average American get ravaged by COVID.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 29 October 2024