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Forums - Politics Discussion - Attempted assassination on Trump

Current score:
Secret Service: 1
Dumbass shooter: 0
Oh, and FYI - the Secret Service has some of best snipers in the world. This fact has been known since the 80s. LOL!

Last edited by BFR - on 14 July 2024

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Pemalite said:

It will be interesting to see if Trump changes his views on guns going forwards, now that he was on the receiving end on poor legislation and control.

Maybe if he is clipped on the other ear. 

However, agreed will be interesting to see what his stance will be.



 

 

Trump isn't going to change his stance on guns, lol. Gun owners are rhe ones buying his MAGA crap. Only thing that might change is his stance on outdoor rallies.



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RolStoppable said:

Are Americans really so simple-minded that this event could change who they vote for in November? Sounds a lot like unfounded pessimism to me. After all, there are two major ways to interpret this:

1. Trump is a hero for surviving an assassination attempt.
2. What could be so bad about Trump that someone would try to assassinate him? What... Project 2025? What is it? Oh...

And then there's number 3: A typical American mass shooter who was frustrated with the world went on a killing spree. Trump wasn't even touched by a bullet. Just another regular day in the USA.

I doubt the polls change all that much, but that's also a bad sign just for a different reason. It'll mostly be the minority of independents or undecideds, which is who decides the elections most of the time anyway.

I'd say there's a 4th way which is always the way I look at everything now initially. It's the swap interpretation. Swap Biden for Trump or vice versa, and see if the narrative and reaction would be the same if not similar at least.

In this case, this doesn't pass the swap test. If Biden were shot at and bleeding, the narrative and reaction would be very different than what we've seen. Wouldn't matter if people on the right were saying or suggesting the same or similar negative things about Biden, the view of the incident would be totally different, which makes no sense.

The only way I see this incident being negated and enough of those swing voters being persuaded back to the Dems, is if they change their candidate for someone seen as more electable, or if something tragic were to happen to Biden. The first would be acceptable, the second wouldn't be, unless it were natural death of old age, which would obviously be sad but is what it is, and politically would help offset any Trump sympathy for Biden sympathy.



Pemalite said:

the-pi-guy said:

America doesn't have a history of assassination attempts particularly boosting candidates. This one might be different, because the media landscape is different. 

The little bit of information that we have is that the shooter was a registered Republican.

EricHiggin said:

Wondering what the "guns are bad" crowd is thinking about this since they seem so quiet.

This shooting is proof that guns are bad. 

Do you think this has changed their mind, for some reason? 

EnricoPallazzo said:

Guns are bad and I am definitely against it, never would buy one, but as happened with Bolsonaro you dont need much to kill someone if you want to . Or all the knife attacks in London, or the guy in London that killed a whole family using a bow. If crazy people want to kill someone, they will find a way to do it. 

Anyway, america will never change their gun culture

I always find the argument that banning guns is pointless because people will just use knives instead.... As bizarre.
It's not a knife ban, it's not even a gun ban, it's gun control.

It's akin to saying... That unless you can stop all crime, gun control is pointless.
Which would be like saying... That unless we could 100% get rid of drugs, there is no point in making drugs like crack, cocaine or meth illegal.

From the perspective of saving lives... I find saving someones life to have a higher success rate if it's just a wound, be it knife or otherwise, verses someone who was shot... I am not a surgeon, I ain't getting that little piece of metal out unless it came out itself.

Gun control has been proven to factually work, but it's not designed to ban guns and make them illegal, it's designed to remove the potential for it to be used in a malicious or accidental manner... Australia has more guns today than it did before Gun control was introduced in the 90's... But we have far far far far far fewer incidents even on a per-capita basis.

Gun control would have made this assassination attempt on Trump far less likely to have occurred.

It will be interesting to see if Trump changes his views on guns going forwards, now that he was on the receiving end on poor legislation and control.

How often does the US Prez get assassinated? It's rare enough to begin with. With all the gun control we already have vs the past, how is this still happening? Just add more gun control? That's like saying just spend more money. Gun control doesn't mean anything in this case.

If you've decided to try and take out leaders of the free world, you're going to need at least a gun, and no amount of gun control is going to stop that.

As to whether Trump changes his view on guns:

Something tells me he won't.



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Chrkeller said:

Trump isn't going to change his stance on guns, lol. Gun owners are rhe ones buying his MAGA crap. Only thing that might change is his stance on outdoor rallies.

Yup. Rallies will have much higher security with a much larger perimeter, but even after this, I wouldn't be surprised if the stage doesn't really change much. I don't see him standing behind bulletproof glass unless it's basically forced on him.



EnricoPallazzo said:
EricHiggin said:

Ya the big question is how the guy got up there and in place with a gun without being caught. 

The MAGA guy who supposedly saw the shooter climbing with the gun told the nearby cops and they didn't really do anything apparently. He also said based on the location and angle that it was probably difficult for the SS snipers that were visible to the crowd to see the shooter.

There's also video from the crowd of a pair of SS snipers back behind trump on a roof, and like maybe 10 seconds before Trump goes down they look to the right and quickly get ready to shoot, but they don't fire until the shooter fires. The SS snipers probably couldn't confirm the shooter had a gun so they probably waited for the go ahead to shoot and when they heard shots they immediately engaged. You can see the one snipers shoulder action so they definitely waited to shoot until after the shooter started firing. All they had was maybe 10 seconds once they turned to lock him in.

This could maybe explain how quickly they were to shoot the guy. Because there are maybe 3-4 seconds between the guy first shot and then the snipers shooting him. Conspiracy theorists are saying its proof its a botched job, the idea was to kill the guy right after he killed trump. Its more likely they got him on sight, were ready to fire but the guy fired first.

As soon as Trump goes down you see the SS snipers return fire, so it was only a second, maybe two at most.

Well the SS can't really just put anybody down because they're a little worried. It would be a PR nightmare if the suspected shooter were mostly innocent and just a dummy for being overly suspicious without a weapon. Even if the SS saw them with a gun, I'd guess they can't just immediately take the shot on their own discretion without a go ahead from higher up the chain, unless the shooter starts firing, then I'm sure they can instantly engage the target.

Killing an innocent yet suspicious person during a campaign would likely be political suicide for that candidate. It would be a little different if it were the President themselves, they would have more leeway as to taking out a potential threat, but for a political opponent in a campaign, even a former Prez like Trump, you hafta be quite careful with how your security deals with potential threats.



EricHiggin said:

How often does the US Prez get assassinated? It's rare enough to begin with.

There shouldn't be any assassinations, period.

But...

1) Abraham Lincoln: Killed in 1865 by John Wilkes Booth at Ford's Theatre in Washington.

2) James Garfield: Shot in 1881 in Washington at a train station, and died of his wounds two and a half months later.

3) William McKinley: Assassinated in 1901 by an anarchist in Buffalo, New York.

4) John F. Kennedy: Lee Harvey Oswald shot Kennedy in 1963 in Dallas, Texas as the president rode in a motorcade.


**************

Those who survived assasinations attempts:

1) Donald Trump just recently.

2) Ronald Reagan: He was shot in 1981 outside the Hilton Hotel in Washington but survived the attack. 

3) President Gerald Ford: Survived two attempts on his life in less than three weeks in 1975 without being hurt.

4) Theodore Roosevelt: He was shot in the chest in 1912 while campaigning for elections in Milwaukee and survived.


***************

Assassination plots/attempts:

1) Andrew Jackson in 1835: Richard Lawrence attempted to shoot Jackson outside the Capitol Building, but both of his pistols misfired.

2) Abraham Lincoln in 1864: A sniper's bullet passed through Lincoln's hat, narrowly missing his head, as he rode to the Soldiers' Home.

3) William Howard Taft in 1909: A plot to assassinate Taft in El Paso, Texas was foiled.

4) Franklin D. Roosevelt in 1933: Giuseppe Zangara fired shots at Roosevelt's car, missing the president-elect but fatally wounding Chicago Mayor Anton Cermak.

5) Harry S. Truman in 1950: Two Puerto Rican nationalists attempted to assassinate Truman at Blair House.

6) John F. Kennedy in 1960: Richard Pavlick planned to blow up Kennedy's car with explosives but abandoned the plot.

7) George H.W. Bush in 1993: A plot to assassinate Bush during his visit to Kuwait was foiled.

8) Bill Clinton in 1994: Francisco Martin Duran fired shots at the White House from outside the fence.

9) George W. Bush in 2005: A grenade was thrown at Bush during a speech in Tbilisi, Georgia, but failed to detonate.

And there are more. A lot more.

https://www.golocalprov.com/news/list-of-us-assassination-attempts-and-plots-on-presidents-and-former-presid
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_presidential_assassination_attempts_and_plots

EricHiggin said:

With all the gun control we already have vs the past, how is this still happening? Just add more gun control? That's like saying just spend more money. Gun control doesn't mean anything in this case.

Gun control has proven to work. The USA doesn't have any real semblance of gun control.


Again. Factually. Gun control works. See: Australia.
Also in Australia we have more guns post-gun control, than pre-gun control, but far far far fewer incidents... Which proves it works as the inverse should happen.

EricHiggin said:

If you've decided to try and take out leaders of the free world, you're going to need at least a gun, and no amount of gun control is going to stop that.

Except it does stop that. Again. See: Australia.

Before Gun control Australia had 13 mass shootings during the 18 years before it. That's an incident involving 4 or more casualties. Since? You do the math.

Gun-related homicide, suicide, accidents also took a corresponding plunge.

EricHiggin said:

Something tells me he won't.

You are probably right, he is pig-headed enough not to change his views when faced with overwhelming evidence.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Political violence is never okay. I hope that we can heal as a nation sometime in my lifetime. As someone born during Clinton's presidency, I feel I've never lived during a time when the US wasn't so politically polarized.



I'm surprised people don't think this attempt will impact the election.

1) Regan's approval and support sky rocketed after his assassination attempt

2) a personal know a few Republicans that were not going to vote but plan to now

3) Biden will likely watch his attacks on Trump and will dial tone back

I could be wrong but I think this has significant impact

Edit

And Trump was already leading the polls, especially in key swing states.

Last edited by Chrkeller - on 15 July 2024

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