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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - How will be Switch 2 performance wise?

 

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Chrkeller said:
Biggerboat1 said:

Chrkeller said:

2) The switch 2 will be a ps4 and that is a huge jump for Nintendo.  Day 1 here.  The ps5 stuff is nonsense.

I feel there's a bit of bad faith arguing going on here. Can you link to specific quotes made in this thread that say Switch 2 will be equivalent to PS5?

What I can see is people arguing that it'll be capable enough to run many current gen games with compromises, whether those compromises are deemed worthwhile, remains to be seen. The compromises made on Steam Deck seem acceptable to many owners of that system. 

Also, 'The switch 2 will be a ps4 and that is a huge jump for Nintendo.  Day 1 here.  The ps5 stuff is nonsense.', where are you getting this info? DF's best guess has it pegged significantly more capable than PS4, what do you know that they/we don't?

Making a statement like that with that kind of certainty is just silly, we don't even know what node the thing will be manufactured on, which in itself will have a big impact on performance. Who knows, you may end up being correct, but that'll be out of sheer luck as we simply do not have enough info to make that call now.

Something like this?

"I guess you missed the part where they shocased unreal 5 engine demo similar to what what shown for ps5. That cannot run on ps4/ps4 pro specs. It will also have a current gen based cpu, which is much more powerful than last gen, along with a much bettter cpu."

I mean, that same user posted this directly prior;

'I'm hoping they go back to the glory days. A power house , ps5 pro specs, and huge 3rd party multiplat support.'

So I'd say there's a solid chance that he's posting tongue in cheek...

Even if we take it seriously, like Vodacixi pointed out, 'similar' does not mean 'equivalent'. And he's talking about the demo, not the systems. Could a lower-res, lower fps version of the demo be classed as 'similar', I'd suggest so, though you'd have to clarify with that user if that's what he meant.

Bottom line is that you have to do some serious contortions to interpret that comment seriously as S2 = PS5.

It's this type of straw-manning that ends up with these threads turning into 30 page bickers.



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sc94597 said:
Chrkeller said:

What is the thought on storage for the S2? I ask because most modern AAA titles are 60 to 100 gb. Cartridges are not cheap nor are they fast. Even the V90 SD I think are 100 to 200 mb/s read speeds. Not much compared to the M2 5000+ mb/s. M2 is expensive, and I don't see Nintendo going that route. I honestly don't know how they plan on handling storage.

CFExpress could be an option. Somewhat expensive (cheapest I could find is $98 for 512GB; $164 for 1TB), but prices could come down enough by the time the Switch 2 releases, and if it induces enough demand for mass production. 

Right now they're mostly sold to professional photographers, which is a small niche market. 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1785567-REG/silicon_power_sp512gbcfeb21v10_512gb_cfexpress_type_b.html

As for internal storage I am guessing Nintendo will go with a relatively cheap 512 GB 2230 solution. They can get as low as $20 per unit if bought in bulk purchases of millions, and the price will get cheaper over the life of the system. 

And of course, Nintendo should support USB SSDs for playing games in docked mode/backup storage to swap them between the internal drive and external drive. 

The only thing I am stumped on is what cartridges they use. Maybe they'll require installs from relatively slow ROMs (100 MB/s - 200 MB/s) and push digital hard. 

Edit: A year ago that same exact 512GB CFExpress card cost $249, so prices seem to be dropping. 

Edit 2: They gobble up 2.5W though, which is a bit much for a portable device that likely won't exceed 12W undocked. In comparison a Micro SD card gobbles up .5W. CFExpress Type A gobbles up 1.75W which isn't much better than Type B and is far more expensive currently. 

I guess battery technology has to have improved as well in 7 years?

Looking at the Galaxy S series phones (not sure if best product for comparison...), but the S23 sports a 3900 mAh battery, compared to it's 7 year older sibling's, (S7) 3000 mAh.

So a 30% increase. If that improvement applies to Switch's battery type then the extra capacity could potentially be used to drive a higher wattage for similar battery life to S1 - though my intuition tells me Nintendo would more readily opt for longer battery life...



Biggerboat1 said:

I guess battery technology has to have improved as well in 7 years?

Looking at the Galaxy S series phones (not sure if best product for comparison...), but the S23 sports a 3900 mAh battery, compared to it's 7 year older sibling's, (S7) 3000 mAh.

So a 30% increase. If that improvement applies to Switch's battery type then the extra capacity could potentially be used to drive a higher wattage for similar battery life to S1 - though my intuition tells me Nintendo would more readily opt for longer battery life...

The Switch OLED (420 grams with Joy-Cons) has a 16 Wh battery.

The similar sized Ayaneo Air Pro (440 grams) has a 38 Wh battery.



Biggerboat1 said:
sc94597 said:

CFExpress could be an option. Somewhat expensive (cheapest I could find is $98 for 512GB; $164 for 1TB), but prices could come down enough by the time the Switch 2 releases, and if it induces enough demand for mass production. 

Right now they're mostly sold to professional photographers, which is a small niche market. 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1785567-REG/silicon_power_sp512gbcfeb21v10_512gb_cfexpress_type_b.html

As for internal storage I am guessing Nintendo will go with a relatively cheap 512 GB 2230 solution. They can get as low as $20 per unit if bought in bulk purchases of millions, and the price will get cheaper over the life of the system. 

And of course, Nintendo should support USB SSDs for playing games in docked mode/backup storage to swap them between the internal drive and external drive. 

The only thing I am stumped on is what cartridges they use. Maybe they'll require installs from relatively slow ROMs (100 MB/s - 200 MB/s) and push digital hard. 

Edit: A year ago that same exact 512GB CFExpress card cost $249, so prices seem to be dropping. 

Edit 2: They gobble up 2.5W though, which is a bit much for a portable device that likely won't exceed 12W undocked. In comparison a Micro SD card gobbles up .5W. CFExpress Type A gobbles up 1.75W which isn't much better than Type B and is far more expensive currently. 

I guess battery technology has to have improved as well in 7 years?

Looking at the Galaxy S series phones (not sure if best product for comparison...), but the S23 sports a 3900 mAh battery, compared to it's 7 year older sibling's, (S7) 3000 mAh.

So a 30% increase. If that improvement applies to Switch's battery type then the extra capacity could potentially be used to drive a higher wattage for similar battery life to S1 - though my intuition tells me Nintendo would more readily opt for longer battery life...

The Steam Deck has a 5300 MAH battery versus the projection of a 5600 MAH battery given that speculated 30% increase over the original Switch. So doesn't sound too far fetched. 



sc94597 said:

The Steam Deck has a 5300 MAH battery versus the projection of a 5600 MAH battery given that speculated 30% increase over the original Switch. So doesn't sound too far fetched. 

Please use Wh (watt hours) instead of Ah (ampere hours) for battery capacity comparisons.

Ampere hours are depending on the voltage of the devices.

Switch and Steam deck have different voltages, Switch 2 will probably also have different voltages.

Watt hours are a unit of energy that represents the capacity of power (in watts) to be expended over a period of one hour.

In contrast, amp hours measure the current (in amps) over a period of time.

Last edited by Conina - on 17 November 2023

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^^ the voltage is always about the same for lithium-ion batteries, the Steam Deck likely uses two cells in a serial circuit instead of a regulator since it's exactly twice 3.6-4 V. So it's better thought of as an ~ 11,000 mAh battery when comparing it to smartphones/Switch.

Mind that's easier for batteries to supply constant current rather than a constant voltage at all charge levels, hence why it's measured in mAh.

Biggerboat1 said:

sc94597 said:

I guess battery technology has to have improved as well in 7 years?

Looking at the Galaxy S series phones (not sure if best product for comparison...), but the S23 sports a 3900 mAh battery, compared to it's 7 year older sibling's, (S7) 3000 mAh.

So a 30% increase. If that improvement applies to Switch's battery type then the extra capacity could potentially be used to drive a higher wattage for similar battery life to S1 - though my intuition tells me Nintendo would more readily opt for longer battery life...

It's more a matter of size. The S23 has a 77% larger surface area than a 5.1'' S7 so the battery could be even bigger, like the M54's 6000 mAh.



 

 

 

 

 

Biggerboat1 said:

It's this type of straw-manning that ends up with these threads turning into 30 page bickers.

That’s exactly what happens in like every Switch 2 hardware thread, a bunch of people arguing over semantics.

Person A: Switch 2 will be similar to current gen consoles as it will likely run most 3rd party titles just by lowering things like resolution, frame rate, lighting, particle effects, etc.

Person B: Switch 2 will not be similar to current gen consoles as 3rd party developers will have to make cuts to things like resolution, frame rate, lighting, particle effects, etc.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

zorg1000 said:
Biggerboat1 said:

It's this type of straw-manning that ends up with these threads turning into 30 page bickers.

That’s exactly what happens in like every Switch 2 hardware thread, a bunch of people arguing over semantics.

Person A: Switch 2 will be similar to current gen consoles as it will likely run most 3rd party titles just by lowering things like resolution, frame rate, lighting, particle effects, etc.

Person B: Switch 2 will not be similar to current gen consoles as 3rd party developers will have to make cuts to things like resolution, frame rate, lighting, particle effects, etc.

I think a lot depends on if Alan wake 2 will be a one off or the norm.  On the ps5 performance mode it has native resolution less than 900p.  DLSS is nice but will not work well if upscaling a 540p S2 image.  

Just my 2 cents but the first few years were heavy in cross gen ports.  Now that is over I think people are going to be surprised at graphic fidelity.  I don't think we hit diminishing returns and I think the gap will be quite large.

Having said that Nintendo is my favorite developer and the S2 for nintendo's art style will look amazing.  

I'm just not buying the switch 2 will pull off GTA6 and AW2 in likeness.  

The big advantage for the switch 2 is upscaling....  I think current consoles will start using upscaling regularly.....  with a push in raw graphics.  PC has been all over this for a while.  Meaning I don't think it will be the advantage many think it will be.



Soundwave said:
Chrkeller said:

A Steam Deck isn't a PS4 either ... it runs like dozens of games a PS4 doesn't (Pro or base model). By the end of this product cycle it'll probably have 100+ games the PS4 can't run that it runs acceptably. How the fuck can you be a "just a PS4" and also "oh yeah I run like 100 games from the successor generation". Those two things directly contradict each other.

Even if the Steam deck runs PS4 games, usually they need to be upscaled vs the PS4.
Like say God of War, on a steamdeck you would run that at 720p (low) with FSR (fps would be 28-33fps, but usually above 30fps).
While on a PS4, it would be 1080p native (slightly better settings), and a solid 30fps.

Steamdeck isnt quite as powerfull as a PS4.
One of those things that high resolutions enjoy alot, is the memory bandwidth of vram.
Steam deck has 88 GB/s compaired to the PS4's 176 GB/s.

The steam deck is close, but not quite there imo.
(steam deck, while gameing can go upto like 27-28watts or so (with the display at 600nits ect))

Steam deck shows its possible though.... Like I could see Nintendo doing it, matching a PS4 (without upscaleing) in terms of performance/visuals.
And with upscaleing (when docked) reaching better image quality than a PS4.

*edit:
Oled version of steam deck,.... with the faster ram it has (memory bandwidth 102,4 GB/s), and newer node for the chip, lowering its wattage by a few watts under load (compaired to the original)... again is makeing me abit more optimistic about the Switch 2.

Last edited by JRPGfan - on 17 November 2023

Here are the batteries of the Switch and the Steam Deck (LCD):

The battery of the Steam Deck can hold more than double of the energy, but is of course approximately double the size and double the weight.