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Forums - Sony Discussion - Playstation's worst year when it comes to 1st party output.

twintail said:

Geralt99 said:

Imagine how much worse would it be without Insomniac. As of October this year, they will have put out 3 games and a remaster since the launch of PS5.

Other Playstation studios really need to step up their Game in terms of dev cycles.

I imagine it would be the same, probably different. We were expecting Stellar Blade and Convollaria after all. I also imagine Insomniac and Spider-Man 2 gave Sony enough breathing space to let those 2 fall back into 2024.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Insomniac's efficiency is what led Sony to get them. Allows Sony to generate consistent content while other teams are taking longer to get games out the door (which is an industry reality) while also allowing calls to internally delay games to be made a little easier.

Kyuu said:

Naughty Dog in particular has fallen bad. Everyone was shitting on PS3's complex architecture, yet ND was effortlessly producing one critically acclaimed and visually stunning game after the other, 4 of them (plus a new engine?) within a single generation. Insomniac is the closest thing in this generation to "PS3 era Naughty Dog", at least in productivity.

Insomniac has been widely more efficient at releasing games than ND has ever been. By the time ND had released UC2, Insomniac had already churned out Resistance 1 and 2, as well as Ratchet ToD, QFB and a CiT.

They released 10 games in 8 years on the PS3 (with 1 year of no releases). They continued that into the PS4 era and now into the PS5. No real surprise. 

ND also released one of the greats with TLoU2 back in 2020. The earliest their next game would've hit would've been 2023 (which seemed like when TloU Online was going to hit). I feel like with the remaster of UC4/ LL and a remake of TLoU1 since then means we might be waiting a little bit longer, but I don't think that's surprising considering the nature of the games they make now. 

By the time PS6 arrives, we could easily have TLoU3, a new IP, the co-development of a new UC and TLoU Factions. That would be a pretty successful release slate for ND.

U

I almost forgot how productive Insomniac was in the PS3 generation, probabaly coz Naughty Dog back then mixed good output with some very high production values, quality, and popularity that overshadowed Insomniac.

More recently, Insomniac's production values rival some of the best in the industry, and they're responsible for Sony's current biggest published and developed series. I wouldn't say they're more (or less) productive than PS3 era ND when you factor in the number of employees and the scale of their projects. It's not exactly a like for like but both of them impressed me. Current ND does not impress.

In my opinion... FromSoftware and Insomniac are the current kings of production. FromSoft doesn't have the best visuals or technical strengths, but the depth of their games is mad impressive without requiring the long development times you expect from say a Zelda game (let alone a hypothetical PS5 level Zelda game).

Monolith seem very productive too. Granted it's easier to put out higher quantities of games when production values are lower. Ultimately, "productive" and "efficient" are ill-defined term that combines multiple elements.

Capcom is probably up there too, but they're harder to measure with all the different divisions. I don't follow which division is doing what.

Last edited by Kyuu - on 21 October 2023

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Kyuu said:
twintail said:

I imagine it would be the same, probably different. We were expecting Stellar Blade and Convollaria after all. I also imagine Insomniac and Spider-Man 2 gave Sony enough breathing space to let those 2 fall back into 2024.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Insomniac's efficiency is what led Sony to get them. Allows Sony to generate consistent content while other teams are taking longer to get games out the door (which is an industry reality) while also allowing calls to internally delay games to be made a little easier.

Kyuu said:

Naughty Dog in particular has fallen bad. Everyone was shitting on PS3's complex architecture, yet ND was effortlessly producing one critically acclaimed and visually stunning game after the other, 4 of them (plus a new engine?) within a single generation. Insomniac is the closest thing in this generation to "PS3 era Naughty Dog", at least in productivity.

Insomniac has been widely more efficient at releasing games than ND has ever been. By the time ND had released UC2, Insomniac had already churned out Resistance 1 and 2, as well as Ratchet ToD, QFB and a CiT.

They released 10 games in 8 years on the PS3 (with 1 year of no releases). They continued that into the PS4 era and now into the PS5. No real surprise. 

ND also released one of the greats with TLoU2 back in 2020. The earliest their next game would've hit would've been 2023 (which seemed like when TloU Online was going to hit). I feel like with the remaster of UC4/ LL and a remake of TLoU1 since then means we might be waiting a little bit longer, but I don't think that's surprising considering the nature of the games they make now. 

By the time PS6 arrives, we could easily have TLoU3, a new IP, the co-development of a new UC and TLoU Factions. That would be a pretty successful release slate for ND.

U

I almost forgot how productive Insomniac was in the PS3 generation, probabaly coz Naughty Dog back then mixed good output with some very high production values, quality, and popularity that overshadowed Insomniac.

More recently, Insomniac's production values rival some of the best in the industry, and they're responsible for Sony's current biggest published and developed series. I wouldn't say they're more (or less) productive than PS3 era ND when you factor in the number of employees and the scale of their projects. It's not exactly a like for like but both of them impressed me. Current ND does not impress.

In my opinion... FromSoftware and Insomniac are the current kings of production. FromSoft doesn't have the best visuals or technical strengths, but the depth of their games is mad impressive without requiring the long development times you expect from say a Zelda game (let alone a hypothetical PS5 level Zelda game).

Monolith seem very productive too. Granted it's easier to put out higher quantities of games when production values are lower. Ultimately, "productive" and "efficient" are ill-defined term that combines multiple elements.

Capcom is probably up there too, but they're harder to measure with all the different divisions. I don't follow which division is doing what.

I agree that ND has to start getting things going. I'm still not sour on them this gen so far because I think with a remaster an remake under their belt, their team will now be able to push the PS5 more readily. But only time will tell.

But you bring up a good point about the productivity of other teams, and I think it's important for Sony to get more studios like this. From, Monolith and Capcom definitiely are pushing out great games on a consistent basis.

I sort of expected FireSprite to be the EU alternative to Insomniac since they seemed, at one point, to have like 3 projects in production.  They had the Persistence update in 2021, and then Horizon VR this year. Hopefully they have the rumoured Twisted Metal for 2024 with something else in 2025. But of course , since they're also working on the Star Citizen MP mode, they aren't at full manpower for Sony yet. 



Sometimes these guys feel like they can just do whatever they want and get away with it. I always thought 2014 was pretty egregious with all the remasters



I think there is a bit of a misnomer that development only happens on one title at a time... Which simply isn't true.

A developer will have multiple projects in the pipeline.

For example... When Insomiac started developing Spider-Man, the writers would have already finished their work and would have been writing the stories for Ratchet and Clank... And then would have gone onto Spider-Man 2.

They wouldn't have waited around for development to finish on the first Spider-Man... That's just a waste of time and money.

Same goes for engine architects (Sound, Visual, Technical etc'), concept artists, director, lead designer, lead programmer, and lead artist and more... They won't stay on one project start to finish, they will start the ball rolling on the next project before the first one finishes.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Yeah it has been a terrible year for sony's first party releases. This is generally when they should be starting to release more games not less.



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We can say it is weaker than average, but you would find plenty of weaker years. Let's just remember that before PS3 years the only 1st party game that sold more than 10M for Sony was Gran Turismo, it is just that since most games were either exclusive or sold much more on PS on the first 2 gens people forget how weak Sony 1st party were.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Mar1217 said:

Depending on what you're searching for in Sony's library. If you're just playing their first party games, then of course, the offering has been quite meager in comparison to some other years. Not saying the quality of their rare games is bad but that's when you realize they'd prolly win more at diversifying their portfolio with less intensive productions with more AA projects or innovative IP's in scope.

Which I have some doubts about this being their current plan looking at how they want to release a ton of live services in the next few years.

Considering that when they moved from the "diversity" on PS3 (10 games launched, 6 lose money, 2 break even, 2 pay for everything else) their biggest sales were below 10M and the HW was at it lowest sales point, but on PS4 with less diversity almost all games are profitable with majority crossing 10M sales (some reaching 20-25M) and HW growing for 2 gens I don't think they are really losing.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

twintail said:

I sort of expected FireSprite to be the EU alternative to Insomniac since they seemed, at one point, to have like 3 projects in production.  They had the Persistence update in 2021, and then Horizon VR this year. Hopefully they have the rumoured Twisted Metal for 2024 with something else in 2025. But of course , since they're also working on the Star Citizen MP mode, they aren't at full manpower for Sony yet. 

At one point they actually had 4 games in production. Horizon VR, rumored Twisted Metal (Multiplayer Action), some kind of "Action Shooter", and they also have some kind of "horror narrative game".  

They cancelled the action shooter many months back, even before Deviation Games.

Horizon VR obviously finished. I haven't seen any indication of something new. I'm not sure if these people got folded into one of the other teams.

As it stands, it really only seems like they have two projects. One seems to be Twisted Metal, and the other is a horror narrative game (whatever that entails).


Firesprite appears to be done with Star Citizen:

This was last year:

The public timeline that CIG publishes, shows that Firesprite finished its work in March.  

I'm still hopeful that some of the studios will get their ducks in a row. 

I think there are some tricky dynamics. If you finish a game, and then start a new game every year for 6 years, you won't release a single game for 6 years, and then after that you'll start releasing a game every year. So there's a very lengthy transition time; and I get the impression that some of the studios are working in the middle of that transition. I'm hopeful that in like 3 or so years, they'll be pushing out games at a better rate.