By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

94% turnout? That is very high.

In Canada it was 62% for the 2021 elections, and only 43.5% for the provincial elections (Ontario) a record low.
2021 could still have to do with Covid, yet the highest turnout since 1993 was 68% in 2015.


This is odd

Voter turnout in the 2020 U.S. general election soared to levels not seen in decades, fueled by the bitter campaign between Joe Biden and Donald Trump and facilitated by pandemic-related changes to state election rules. More than 158.4 million people voted in that election, according to a Pew Research Center tabulation of official state returns, amounting to 62.8% of people of voting age, using Census Bureau estimates of the 2020 voting-age population.


From Reuters

Posts circulating on social media allege that “only 133 million registered voters voted” to falsely claim that the number of votes cast for Joe Biden is not mathematically possible. The calculation on which this claim is based on is misleading. The nationwide voter turnout is usually calculated using the eligible-voting population as a denominator, not the number of registered voters. Around 239,247,182 people were eligible to vote in 2020. While there is no available figure yet for nationwide registered voters for 2020, Reuters calculations found there were an estimated 206,557,583 registered voters as of the publication of this article.

Anyway turnout is calculated from eligible voters. No idea where those registered voter numbers come from.



Around the Network
SvennoJ said:

94% turnout? That is very high.

In Canada it was 62% for the 2021 elections, and only 43.5% for the provincial elections (Ontario) a record low.
2021 could still have to do with Covid, yet the highest turnout since 1993 was 68% in 2015.


This is odd

Voter turnout in the 2020 U.S. general election soared to levels not seen in decades, fueled by the bitter campaign between Joe Biden and Donald Trump and facilitated by pandemic-related changes to state election rules. More than 158.4 million people voted in that election, according to a Pew Research Center tabulation of official state returns, amounting to 62.8% of people of voting age, using Census Bureau estimates of the 2020 voting-age population.


From Reuters

Posts circulating on social media allege that “only 133 million registered voters voted” to falsely claim that the number of votes cast for Joe Biden is not mathematically possible. The calculation on which this claim is based on is misleading. The nationwide voter turnout is usually calculated using the eligible-voting population as a denominator, not the number of registered voters. Around 239,247,182 people were eligible to vote in 2020. While there is no available figure yet for nationwide registered voters for 2020, Reuters calculations found there were an estimated 206,557,583 registered voters as of the publication of this article.

Anyway turnout is calculated from eligible voters. No idea where those registered voter numbers come from.

I was calculating turnout based on who registered and who actually voted. I think it gives a fair representation. It let's us know who we are actually voting for, because when I look at the Voter Age Population (VAP) and the Voter Eligible Population (VEP), it doesn't feel like an accurate representation of what happening, whereas Registered Voters to Votes seems like an accurate depiction. At least to me it does.

If we considered eligible voter population is would look as so:
1996: VEP, 186.3M. Voted, 96.4M.     51.7% turnout
2000: VEP, 194.3M. Voted, 105.6M.   54.3% turnout
2004: VEP, 203.5M. Voted, 122.3M.   60.1% turnout
2008: VEP, 213.3M. Voted, 131.4M.   62.5% turnout
2012: VEP, 222.5M. Voted, 129.2M.   58.0% turnout
2016: VEP, 230.9M. Voted, 136.7M.   59.2% turnout
2020: VEP, 239.2M. Voted, 158.4M.   66.2% turnout


I got the registered voters from: Statista
https://www.statista.com/statistics/273743/number-of-registered-voters-in-the-united-states/
They do a good job, and are reliable.

66% is still rather high. The highest percentage we can calculate so far. 4% higher than when Obama and McCain were nominees. 7% higher than Trump vs Clinton, and that one seemed pretty bitter as well.

If we base the info off of the VAP then the numbers look even crazier. The highest turnout was 62.8% in 1960. 2008 was 57.1% and 2016 was 54.8%
2020 was a staggering 62.8% (according to a Wiki it's 62.0%, but Pew is more credible) which is astounding to me.

Maybe I'm being crazy, I just wanted to share my info and the connection I made.



Lifetime Sales Predictions 

Switch: 160 million (was 120 million, then 140 million, then 150 million)

PS5: 130 million (was 124 million)

Xbox Series X/S: 54 million (was 60 million, then 57 million)

"The way to accomplish great things, is to be indefatigable and never rest till the thing is accomplished." - Joseph Smith Jr.

More people voting shows at least an interest in politics. There are many more ways to manipulate the outcome of votes, by suppressing votes from certain populations and gerrymandering. https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/gerrymandering-explained
One of the extreme examples of voter district manipulation:

With the rise of AI you can use software to group people together that vote one way, to get them out of the way in other 'districts'. It's how many districts you win, not how many votes you get.

All because of the "winner takes all" system. That's how Bush (2000) and Trump (2016) won the election despite losing the popular vote.
https://www.history.com/news/presidents-electoral-college-popular-vote
(Not that Hillary Clinton would have been any better, what a snake she turned out to be)

Voter fraud wouldn't surprise me either, the whole system is corrupt. Yet a 66.2% turnout is nothing special and still puts the US behind most European countries
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/11/01/turnout-in-u-s-has-soared-in-recent-elections-but-by-some-measures-still-trails-that-of-many-other-countries/
Problem is, thanks to "winner takes all" and manipulation of voter district boundary lines you don't need to mess with many votes to turn an election.



SvennoJ said:

More people voting shows at least an interest in politics. There are many more ways to manipulate the outcome of votes, by suppressing votes from certain populations and gerrymandering. https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/gerrymandering-explained
One of the extreme examples of voter district manipulation:

With the rise of AI you can use software to group people together that vote one way, to get them out of the way in other 'districts'. It's how many districts you win, not how many votes you get.

All because of the "winner takes all" system. That's how Bush (2000) and Trump (2016) won the election despite losing the popular vote.
https://www.history.com/news/presidents-electoral-college-popular-vote
(Not that Hillary Clinton would have been any better, what a snake she turned out to be)

Voter fraud wouldn't surprise me either, the whole system is corrupt. Yet a 66.2% turnout is nothing special and still puts the US behind most European countries
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/11/01/turnout-in-u-s-has-soared-in-recent-elections-but-by-some-measures-still-trails-that-of-many-other-countries/
Problem is, thanks to "winner takes all" and manipulation of voter district boundary lines you don't need to mess with many votes to turn an election.

I don't disagree big picture but I add some clarification since it not clear from what you wrote

District Manipulation affects the House of Representatives but not the Senate or Presidency.  It still a big problem and have a horrible affect on the make up the house and who serves in the house.  You get extremes on both sides because they are in districts that they cant loose so there no reason to appeal to anyone but there base.  Who ever get the most votes do always win but who allowed to vote in each house election is greatly effective.

Senate is always state wide elections so in this case who ever get the most votes do win.  Districts don't matter through for senate elections.

Finally the presidency uses the electoral college.  Most states winner take all electoral vote for the state.  every 10 year the census determine how many electoral votes each states get.  This is where you can win the popular vote but not the electoral college because whether you get 51% or 99% of the state votes you get the same number of electoral college votes.  There a few states that not exactly winner take all but most states are.  District manipulations through have 0 effect on this because the electoral college votes for the state is base on the entire state popular vote and it don't matter what district the vote come from.

Last edited by Cyran - on 06 December 2023

Cyran said:

I don't disagree big picture but I add some clarification since it not clear from what you wrote

District Manipulation affects the House of Representatives but not the Senate or Presidency.  It still a big problem and have a horrible affect on the make up the house and who serves in the house.  You get extremes on both sides because they are in districts that they cant loose so there no reason to appeal to anyone but there base.  Who ever get the most votes do always win but who allowed to vote in each house election is great effective.

Senate is always state wide elections so in this case who every get the most votes do win.

Finally the presidency uses the electoral college.  Most states winner take all electoral vote for the state.  every 10 year the census determine how many electoral votes each states get.  This is where you can win the popular vote but not the electoral college because whether you get 51% or 99% of the state votes you get the same number of electoral college votes.  There a few states that not exactly winner take all but most states are.  District manipulations through have 0 effect on this because the electoral college votes for the state is base on the entire state popular vote and it don't matter what district the vote come from.

Ah thanks for the clarification. I wondered about how these districts could impact state vote outcome, they can't :) Now it makes a lot more sense why the House of Representatives and Senate have such different ratios. Yeah you can't alter state boundaries. Afaik lol.

Apparently you can be (temporarily) registered to vote in multiple states
https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/verify/can-i-be-registered-to-vote-in-more-than-one-state-verify-yes-but-you-can-only-vote-in-one-state/65-4dda7684-e46e-4612-a392-53443a261008
Of course it's illegal to actually vote in multiple states, dunno if it's illegal to vote in your old state if you feel your vote would have more impact there... 2.75 million double registrations (2012) is quite a few swing votes!



Around the Network

Amnesty has gathered concrete proof that US made weapons are / have been used in Gaza airstrikes

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/12/israel-opt-us-made-munitions-killed-43-civilians-in-two-documented-israeli-air-strikes-in-gaza-new-investigation/

  • Fragments of US-made JDAM bombs found in rubble of homes destroyed by Israeli air strikes
  • Attacks must be investigated as war crimes
  • “US-made weapons facilitated the mass killings of extended families” – Agnès Callamard

US-made Joint Direct Attack Munitions (JDAM) were used by the Israeli military in two deadly, unlawful air strikes on homes full of civilians in the occupied Gaza Strip, Amnesty International has found based on a new investigation into those strikes. The organization found that these air strikes were either direct attacks on civilians or civilian objects or indiscriminate attacks and is calling for them to be investigated as war crimes.  

The organization found distinctive fragments of the munition in the rubble of destroyed homes in central Gaza following two strikes that killed a total of 43 civilians – 19 children, 14 women and 10 men. In both cases, survivors told Amnesty International there had been no warning of an imminent strike.

On 10 October, an air strike on the al-Najjar family home in Deir al-Balah killed 24 people. On 22 October, an air strike on the Abu Mu’eileq family home in the same city killed 19 people. Both homes were south of Wadi Gaza, within the area where, on 13 October, the Israeli military had ordered residents of northern Gaza to relocate to.

“The fact that US-made munitions are being used by Israeli military in unlawful attacks with deadly consequences for civilians should be an urgent wake-up call to the Biden administration. The US-made weapons facilitated the mass killings of extended families,” said Agnès Callamard, Amnesty International’s Secretary General.

...

“In the face of the unprecedented civilian death toll and scale of destruction in Gaza, the US and other governments must immediately stop transferring arms to Israel that more likely than not will be used to commit or heighten risks of violations of international law. To knowingly assist in violations is contrary to the obligation to ensure respect for international humanitarian law. A state that continues to supply arms being used to commit violations may share responsibility for these violations.”

...

Amnesty International did not find any indication that there were any military objectives at the sites of the two strikes or that people in the buildings were legitimate military targets, raising concerns that these strikes were direct attacks on civilians. In addition, even if the strikes – which Israel has yet to provide any information about – were intended to target military objectives, the use of explosive weapons with wide-area effects in such densely populated areas could make these indiscriminate attacks. As such, these attacks must be investigated as war crimes.




Just to harp some more on CNN reporting, they did report this yet with this in between (unlike when reporting on the alleged rapes for example)

CNN cannot independently verify Amnesty's findings.

In a statement to CNN, the Israel Defense Forces called the report “flawed, biased and premature, based on baseless assumptions regarding the IDF’s operations.”

“The assumption that intelligence regarding the military use of a particular structure does not exist unless revealed is contradictory to any understanding of military activity, and the report uses this flawed assumption to imply equally flawed and biased conclusions regarding the IDF, in line with existing biases and prior problematic work by this organization,” the IDF said.

Why does CNN keep parroting IDF (proven lies) while questioning everything the UN, UNWRA, WHO, Amnesty, PRCS, MSF, etc says.



https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-chief-rings-alarm-bell-global-security-threat-gaza-war-2023-12-06/

UNITED NATIONS, Dec 6 (Reuters) - United Nations Secretary-General Antonio Guterres made a rare move on Wednesday to formally warn the Security Council of a global threat from the Gaza war as Arab states seek to use this alert to push the council to call for a ceasefire within days.

The United Arab Emirates gave the council a brief draft resolution, seen by Reuters, that would act on the letter from Guterres by demanding an "immediate humanitarian ceasefire" in the conflict between Israel and Palestinian militants Hamas.

Diplomats said the UAE aims to put the text to a vote on Friday when the council is due to be briefed by Guterres on Gaza. To be adopted, a resolution needs at least nine votes in favor and no vetoes by the five permanent members - the United States, Russia, China, France or Britain.

Deputy U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations, Robert Wood, said the United States does not support any further action by the Security Council at this time.

No doubt will be vetoed by the US


CNN's take

In his letter, Guterres said the conflict has created "appalling human suffering, physical destruction and collective trauma across Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territory." Israel’s envoy called the move "a new moral low" and, along with the country's foreign minister, called on Guterres to resign.

Erdan described Guterres’ move as “more proof of the Secretary-General's moral distortion and his bias against Israel," and accused him for “(choosing) to continue playing into Hamas' hands.”

The envoy reiterated his call for the secretary-general to resign immediately. 

Israeli Foreign Minister Eli Cohen also called on Guterres to resign, saying that the UN chief’s “tenure is a danger to world peace.”  

Guterres’ decision to invoke the clause is "an endorsement of the murder of the elderly, the abduction of babies and the rape of women," Cohen wrote on X

A furious diplomatic spat between Israel and the UN broke out in October, with Israeli officials calling for the resignation of Guterres after he said Hamas’ October 7 attacks on the country “did not happen in a vacuum.” 

CNN's Niamh Kennedy and Richard Roth contributed to this report.




https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-12-06/un-chief-steps-up-pressure-for-gaza-cease-fire-with-rare-appeal

Guterres sent the letter under Article 99 of the UN’s charter, which allows the secretary-general to bring any issue seen as threatening international peace to the Security Council’s attention, the UN said.

It marked the first time he’s directly invoked his most powerful diplomatic tool since taking charge of the global body in 2017, and the first time the office has explicitly invoked the article since 1971, during the crisis between India and Pakistan that led to the birth of Bangladesh.

In response to the letter, the United Arab Emirates plans to introduce a Security Council resolution Friday that would call for an immediate cease-fire, according to two people familiar with the matter who asked not to be identified discussing private deliberations. The proposal would call on all parties to comply with their obligations under international law.






SvennoJ said:
Cyran said:

I don't disagree big picture but I add some clarification since it not clear from what you wrote

District Manipulation affects the House of Representatives but not the Senate or Presidency.  It still a big problem and have a horrible affect on the make up the house and who serves in the house.  You get extremes on both sides because they are in districts that they cant loose so there no reason to appeal to anyone but there base.  Who ever get the most votes do always win but who allowed to vote in each house election is great effective.

Senate is always state wide elections so in this case who every get the most votes do win.

Finally the presidency uses the electoral college.  Most states winner take all electoral vote for the state.  every 10 year the census determine how many electoral votes each states get.  This is where you can win the popular vote but not the electoral college because whether you get 51% or 99% of the state votes you get the same number of electoral college votes.  There a few states that not exactly winner take all but most states are.  District manipulations through have 0 effect on this because the electoral college votes for the state is base on the entire state popular vote and it don't matter what district the vote come from.

Ah thanks for the clarification. I wondered about how these districts could impact state vote outcome, they can't :) Now it makes a lot more sense why the House of Representatives and Senate have such different ratios. Yeah you can't alter state boundaries. Afaik lol.

Apparently you can be (temporarily) registered to vote in multiple states
https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/verify/can-i-be-registered-to-vote-in-more-than-one-state-verify-yes-but-you-can-only-vote-in-one-state/65-4dda7684-e46e-4612-a392-53443a261008
Of course it's illegal to actually vote in multiple states, dunno if it's illegal to vote in your old state if you feel your vote would have more impact there... 2.75 million double registrations (2012) is quite a few swing votes!

Yikes, that is a big number.

You can change state boundaries, or at least try to. A couple counties in Oregon are trying to become part of Idaho, to create the State of Greater Idaho.

I do think it's weird that 2020 election was the highest percentage of Voted/VAP, Voted/VEP, and Voted/Registered than in any US Presidential Election.



Lifetime Sales Predictions 

Switch: 160 million (was 120 million, then 140 million, then 150 million)

PS5: 130 million (was 124 million)

Xbox Series X/S: 54 million (was 60 million, then 57 million)

"The way to accomplish great things, is to be indefatigable and never rest till the thing is accomplished." - Joseph Smith Jr.

Shtinamin_ said:

I was calculating turnout based on who registered and who actually voted. I think it gives a fair representation. It let's us know who we are actually voting for, because when I look at the Voter Age Population (VAP) and the Voter Eligible Population (VEP), it doesn't feel like an accurate representation of what happening, whereas Registered Voters to Votes seems like an accurate depiction. At least to me it does.

If we considered eligible voter population is would look as so:
1996: VEP, 186.3M. Voted, 96.4M.     51.7% turnout
2000: VEP, 194.3M. Voted, 105.6M.   54.3% turnout
2004: VEP, 203.5M. Voted, 122.3M.   60.1% turnout
2008: VEP, 213.3M. Voted, 131.4M.   62.5% turnout
2012: VEP, 222.5M. Voted, 129.2M.   58.0% turnout
2016: VEP, 230.9M. Voted, 136.7M.   59.2% turnout
2020: VEP, 239.2M. Voted, 158.4M.   66.2% turnout


I got the registered voters from: Statista
https://www.statista.com/statistics/273743/number-of-registered-voters-in-the-united-states/
They do a good job, and are reliable.

66% is still rather high. The highest percentage we can calculate so far. 4% higher than when Obama and McCain were nominees. 7% higher than Trump vs Clinton, and that one seemed pretty bitter as well.

If we base the info off of the VAP then the numbers look even crazier. The highest turnout was 62.8% in 1960. 2008 was 57.1% and 2016 was 54.8%
2020 was a staggering 62.8% (according to a Wiki it's 62.0%, but Pew is more credible) which is astounding to me.

Maybe I'm being crazy, I just wanted to share my info and the connection I made.

Are you sure?

"In 2022, there were 168.42 million people registered to vote in the United States. This is a decrease from the previous election, when 168.31 million people were registered to vote."

Their math ain't mathing.



To the privileged, equality feels like oppression. 

Shtinamin_ said:
SvennoJ said:

Ah thanks for the clarification. I wondered about how these districts could impact state vote outcome, they can't :) Now it makes a lot more sense why the House of Representatives and Senate have such different ratios. Yeah you can't alter state boundaries. Afaik lol.

Apparently you can be (temporarily) registered to vote in multiple states
https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/verify/can-i-be-registered-to-vote-in-more-than-one-state-verify-yes-but-you-can-only-vote-in-one-state/65-4dda7684-e46e-4612-a392-53443a261008
Of course it's illegal to actually vote in multiple states, dunno if it's illegal to vote in your old state if you feel your vote would have more impact there... 2.75 million double registrations (2012) is quite a few swing votes!

Yikes, that is a big number.

You can change state boundaries, or at least try to. A couple counties in Oregon are trying to become part of Idaho, to create the State of Greater Idaho.

I do think it's weird that 2020 election was the highest percentage of Voted/VAP, Voted/VEP, and Voted/Registered than in any US Presidential Election.

I don't find it strange at all that the percentage was so much higher in 2020 as it was by far the easiest time I've ever had voting. I was in Michigan at the time and voting was a chore that took an hour or so and I felt like I was only informed on a couple races. In 2020 they opened up the ability for everybody to do voting by mail and it was amazing. So much more convenient and I got to sit there with the ballot and look up every single person to feel truly informed on my votes all the way down the ballot. I was so disappointed to see everything moved backwards after that towards more difficult and restrictive methods that will inevitably lead to more people not bothering. 



...

Renamed said:
Shtinamin_ said:

I was calculating turnout based on who registered and who actually voted. I think it gives a fair representation. It let's us know who we are actually voting for, because when I look at the Voter Age Population (VAP) and the Voter Eligible Population (VEP), it doesn't feel like an accurate representation of what happening, whereas Registered Voters to Votes seems like an accurate depiction. At least to me it does.

If we considered eligible voter population is would look as so:
1996: VEP, 186.3M. Voted, 96.4M.     51.7% turnout
2000: VEP, 194.3M. Voted, 105.6M.   54.3% turnout
2004: VEP, 203.5M. Voted, 122.3M.   60.1% turnout
2008: VEP, 213.3M. Voted, 131.4M.   62.5% turnout
2012: VEP, 222.5M. Voted, 129.2M.   58.0% turnout
2016: VEP, 230.9M. Voted, 136.7M.   59.2% turnout
2020: VEP, 239.2M. Voted, 158.4M.   66.2% turnout


I got the registered voters from: Statista
https://www.statista.com/statistics/273743/number-of-registered-voters-in-the-united-states/
They do a good job, and are reliable.

66% is still rather high. The highest percentage we can calculate so far. 4% higher than when Obama and McCain were nominees. 7% higher than Trump vs Clinton, and that one seemed pretty bitter as well.

If we base the info off of the VAP then the numbers look even crazier. The highest turnout was 62.8% in 1960. 2008 was 57.1% and 2016 was 54.8%
2020 was a staggering 62.8% (according to a Wiki it's 62.0%, but Pew is more credible) which is astounding to me.

Maybe I'm being crazy, I just wanted to share my info and the connection I made.

Are you sure?

"In 2022, there were 168.42 million people registered to vote in the United States. This is a decrease from the previous election, when 168.31 million people were registered to vote."

Their math ain't mathing.

VEP & VAP is not the same as the amount of registered voters. Please view my posts before this one you are referring to.

And that is what information the US Government has has well. 
Statista is very reliable at least with every other thing I find.

May I ask where you got the quote from? Please.

Last edited by Shtinamin_ - on 07 December 2023

Lifetime Sales Predictions 

Switch: 160 million (was 120 million, then 140 million, then 150 million)

PS5: 130 million (was 124 million)

Xbox Series X/S: 54 million (was 60 million, then 57 million)

"The way to accomplish great things, is to be indefatigable and never rest till the thing is accomplished." - Joseph Smith Jr.