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Forums - Sales Discussion - Microsoft gives market share against PlayStation

chakkra on 27 February 2023
CGI-Quality said:
chakkra said:

I mean, there's always the other option: MS could use those $70b to outbid Sony on every single exclusivity deal that is out there. I mean, let's be real, the only reason Playstation is getting FFXVI and FFVIIRE as exclusives (which, btw, make up half of the Playstation's games for the near future) is because MS never made a better offer to SE; don't ever think for a second that Square Enix (or any other publisher) would reject a good offer.  I mean, I suppose you wouldn't have a problem with that since apparently we have already established that paying for exclusivity doesn't count as "buying their way into victory" and is a sign that "they don't suck at what they do".


To be honest with you, I actually want this deal to get blocked; just to see MS going full force on this alternative (which we have already established that it is fair play, right?).

What they need to do is invest in the studios they already have. Take that $70B and actually invest in their studios rather than trying to "outbid" Sony at anything. All that money means nothing if you can't manage your business and Nintendo and PlayStation continuously beat them because they know how to work with what they have. 

The problem with your view on this is it's based on emotion, which is not how business works (or should work). The last thing you should be cheering for is any more industry consolidation, particularly of this magnitude. 

I mean, we could argue for days about what they "need" to do (or what we want them to do) but the real question is actually what will they do?

You make it sound like they will just say "Oh, so we can't buy Activision? no problem, let's just go on a hiring spree and start a bunch of projects from zero, no rush" and somehow I just don't see that happening.

So, let me ask you, what do you think they will do when this gets blocked?



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CGI-Quality on 27 February 2023
chakkra said:
CGI-Quality said:

What they need to do is invest in the studios they already have. Take that $70B and actually invest in their studios rather than trying to "outbid" Sony at anything. All that money means nothing if you can't manage your business and Nintendo and PlayStation continuously beat them because they know how to work with what they have. 

The problem with your view on this is it's based on emotion, which is not how business works (or should work). The last thing you should be cheering for is any more industry consolidation, particularly of this magnitude. 

I mean, we could argue for days about what they "need" to do (or what we want them to do) but the real question is actually what will they do?

You make it sound like they will just say "Oh, so we can't buy Activision? no problem, let's just go on a hiring spree and start a bunch of projects from zero, no rush" and somehow I just don't see that happening.

So, let me ask you, what do you think they will do when this gets blocked?

For starters, it most likely won't get blocked. 

Second, I didn't say what they will do (you nor I can say that with any % of absolute certainty). I said what they should do. 

Finally, even if this deal fails [it won't], they would most likely spend that money on other acquisitions. The writing is on the wall, literally. I'm telling you that wanting said acquisitions to continue cheers for industry consolidation. If that's what you want, go with it, but Microsoft won't be doing these in a vacuum. 

Last edited by CGI-Quality - on 27 February 2023

                                                                                                                                                           

DonFerrari on 28 February 2023
Kyuu said:
chakkra said:

I mean, there's always the other option: MS could use those $70b to outbid Sony on every single exclusivity deal that is out there. I mean, let's be real, the only reason Playstation is getting FFXVI and FFVIIRE as exclusives (which, btw, make up half of the Playstation's games for the near future) is because MS never made a better offer to SE; don't ever think for a second that Square Enix (or any other publisher) would reject a good offer.  I mean, I suppose you wouldn't have a problem with that since apparently we have already established that paying for exclusivity doesn't count as "buying their way into victory" and is a sign that "they don't suck at what they do".


To be honest with you, I actually want this deal to get blocked; just to see MS going full force on this alternative (which we have already established that it is fair play, right?).

MS would have to pay a whole lot more than Sony if they want to make similar deals. A lot more for a small reward. We've seen that with Shadow of the Tomb Raider and other examples (Which was what likely led MS to stop aggressively securing big exclusives. They paid a $100 million for a single year Tomb Raider exclusivity lol). Japanese publishers in particular would not take MS's money for a short term benefit that could risk the IP's strength. Not to mention Xbox marketing isn't great.

Sony aren't "buying their way to victory", as A) the majority of the few high profile exclusives they secured started caming out late in the PS4 generation, and B) all exclusives pale in comparison to their own bigger 1st party titles. Playstation's exclusives are mostly unpaid. Those which are paid still aren't nearly as big as Sony's own titles. On the other hand... Minecraft, CoD, WoW, and TES are several tiers above the level of Microsoft's older IP's.

I found it odd that neither Sony nor MS tried to bid for Square Enix western that was sold out. That would have been a cheap and easy purchase.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

EpicRandy on 28 February 2023
DonFerrari said:
Kyuu said:

MS would have to pay a whole lot more than Sony if they want to make similar deals. A lot more for a small reward. We've seen that with Shadow of the Tomb Raider and other examples (Which was what likely led MS to stop aggressively securing big exclusives. They paid a $100 million for a single year Tomb Raider exclusivity lol). Japanese publishers in particular would not take MS's money for a short term benefit that could risk the IP's strength. Not to mention Xbox marketing isn't great.

Sony aren't "buying their way to victory", as A) the majority of the few high profile exclusives they secured started caming out late in the PS4 generation, and B) all exclusives pale in comparison to their own bigger 1st party titles. Playstation's exclusives are mostly unpaid. Those which are paid still aren't nearly as big as Sony's own titles. On the other hand... Minecraft, CoD, WoW, and TES are several tiers above the level of Microsoft's older IP's.

I found it odd that neither Sony nor MS tried to bid for Square Enix western that was sold out. That would have been a cheap and easy purchase.

The more likely reason is that the ABK transaction was already undergoing, MS would not shot themselves in the foot by making other transaction at the same time rendering this one more difficult than it already is and likewise Sony would not make any action that may result in a more lenient review of MS/ABK transaction from to the regulator. 



DonFerrari on 28 February 2023
EpicRandy said:
DonFerrari said:

I found it odd that neither Sony nor MS tried to bid for Square Enix western that was sold out. That would have been a cheap and easy purchase.

The more likely reason is that the ABK transaction was already undergoing, MS would not shot themselves in the foot by making other transaction at the same time rendering this one more difficult than it already is and likewise Sony would not make any action that may result in a more lenient review of MS/ABK transaction from to the regulator. 

Considering Bungie purchase the size of the SQE Western wasn't big enough to make to much of a ripple, perhaps neither found value on it (I do like and think well administered it could do pretty well, Tencent/Embracer didn't see to make a good use of it yet, said they are going to release a lot of IPs but latest news aren't so good).



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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Machiavellian on 28 February 2023
CGI-Quality said:
chakkra said:

I mean, we could argue for days about what they "need" to do (or what we want them to do) but the real question is actually what will they do?

You make it sound like they will just say "Oh, so we can't buy Activision? no problem, let's just go on a hiring spree and start a bunch of projects from zero, no rush" and somehow I just don't see that happening.

So, let me ask you, what do you think they will do when this gets blocked?

For starters, it most likely won't get blocked. 

Second, I didn't say what they will do (you nor I can say that with any % of absolute certainty). I said what they should do. 

Finally, even if this deal fails [it won't], they would most likely spend that money on other acquisitions. The writing is on the wall, literally. I'm telling you that wanting said acquisitions to continue cheers for industry consolidation. If that's what you want, go with it, but Microsoft won't be doing these in a vacuum. 

Lets be honest here, whether we want consolidation or not its coming.  Its already hear, you have Tencent buying just about every Dev they can.  You have big publishers on the block for selling.  You have massive corporations looking to enter the market.  Its not a matter of if, its already here, so the question is how will it shape tomorrow.  Who ideal stragey lines up best for the future.  I remember a time people talked about buying physical over digital because they want to own their games but look at the PC market now.  I highly doubt anyone on the PC buys a physical copy and the Console market will soon follow.

So today, every company has some sort of service, people say they do not want a service they want to purchase their game but as time continue to move, more and more are subbing to services.

The key is it really does not matter if MS purchase a publisher or a bunch of studios because the market is dictating content and the service with the best content wins.  All the big players are moving towards this goal, whether like MS all in or on a slower approach like Sony.

So when you say supporting this deal you are supporting consolidation of the industry, I say that that ship has already passed.  Instead you are supporting which service best meets your needs.  I have both PS + and GP, currently I see GP as a much better service all around so I support this deal.  Also I support this deal because I really do not like it when Sony gets to much of a market lead.  When Sony gets to much of a market lead, they do not push for features, price or anything for the consumer.  I want them to always feel threaten so they continue to strive to be the best instead of protecting what they got.



Machiavellian on 28 February 2023
DonFerrari said:
Kyuu said:

MS would have to pay a whole lot more than Sony if they want to make similar deals. A lot more for a small reward. We've seen that with Shadow of the Tomb Raider and other examples (Which was what likely led MS to stop aggressively securing big exclusives. They paid a $100 million for a single year Tomb Raider exclusivity lol). Japanese publishers in particular would not take MS's money for a short term benefit that could risk the IP's strength. Not to mention Xbox marketing isn't great.

Sony aren't "buying their way to victory", as A) the majority of the few high profile exclusives they secured started caming out late in the PS4 generation, and B) all exclusives pale in comparison to their own bigger 1st party titles. Playstation's exclusives are mostly unpaid. Those which are paid still aren't nearly as big as Sony's own titles. On the other hand... Minecraft, CoD, WoW, and TES are several tiers above the level of Microsoft's older IP's.

I found it odd that neither Sony nor MS tried to bid for Square Enix western that was sold out. That would have been a cheap and easy purchase.

MS did not because they do not want anything to further conflict with the ABK deal, Sony did not because they just did not care for the studio.



Machiavellian on 28 February 2023
SKMBlake said:

That's the problem: if everything remains the same availability-wise, using the market share argument doesn't work.

"Our current market share is low, so if we buy companies that will keep releasing games on PS5, our market share will be better"

Don't see how

The thing is, that is not the point.  The point is that Sony has market share dominance.  With that market share dominance, Sony whole goal is to continue to dominate the market.  Sony only reason to refuse MS deal or not throw back a counter offer is that they believe this deal will give them competition and thus they can lose market share and the current contracts they do would be refused.  

The question is why is it that only Sony is contesting this deal.  If you believe because of some benevolent Sony you would be fooling yourself, this is business.  MS point is that the regulators are protecting the market leader who is not shy about using their market position to lock out games to their competition all the while they are making an issue of COD lock out of Sony hurting Sony as a company.  MS is giving a deal that negates that point, also offer Sony a counter but of course Sony will never agree to any deal or if they make a counter it probably would be give us COD for free or something foolish like that.  At the end of the day all this is posturing by both companies seeking an advantage or maintaining their advantage.  I see nothing wrong with either side as everyone has a stake in this deal either positive or negative.



EpicRandy on 28 February 2023
DonFerrari said:
EpicRandy said:

The more likely reason is that the ABK transaction was already undergoing, MS would not shot themselves in the foot by making other transaction at the same time rendering this one more difficult than it already is and likewise Sony would not make any action that may result in a more lenient review of MS/ABK transaction from to the regulator. 

Considering Bungie purchase the size of the SQE Western wasn't big enough to make to much of a ripple, perhaps neither found value on it (I do like and think well administered it could do pretty well, Tencent/Embracer didn't see to make a good use of it yet, said they are going to release a lot of IPs but latest news aren't so good).

Yeah but the bungie acquisition was announced very soon after MS announced the ABK one, something like 2 weeks, so the deal was probably already set in stone and that was way before regulator stepped in.



CGI-Quality on 28 February 2023
Machiavellian said:
CGI-Quality said:

For starters, it most likely won't get blocked. 

Second, I didn't say what they will do (you nor I can say that with any % of absolute certainty). I said what they should do. 

Finally, even if this deal fails [it won't], they would most likely spend that money on other acquisitions. The writing is on the wall, literally. I'm telling you that wanting said acquisitions to continue cheers for industry consolidation. If that's what you want, go with it, but Microsoft won't be doing these in a vacuum. 

Lets be honest here, whether we want consolidation or not its coming.  Its already hear, you have Tencent buying just about every Dev they can.  You have big publishers on the block for selling.  You have massive corporations looking to enter the market.  Its not a matter of if, its already here, so the question is how will it shape tomorrow.  Who ideal stragey lines up best for the future.  I remember a time people talked about buying physical over digital because they want to own their games but look at the PC market now.  I highly doubt anyone on the PC buys a physical copy and the Console market will soon follow.

So today, every company has some sort of service, people say they do not want a service they want to purchase their game but as time continue to move, more and more are subbing to services.

The key is it really does not matter if MS purchase a publisher or a bunch of studios because the market is dictating content and the service with the best content wins.  All the big players are moving towards this goal, whether like MS all in or on a slower approach like Sony.

So when you say supporting this deal you are supporting consolidation of the industry, I say that that ship has already passed.  Instead you are supporting which service best meets your needs.  I have both PS + and GP, currently I see GP as a much better service all around so I support this deal.  Also I support this deal because I really do not like it when Sony gets to much of a market lead.  When Sony gets to much of a market lead, they do not push for features, price or anything for the consumer.  I want them to always feel threaten so they continue to strive to be the best instead of protecting what they got.

Oh, they will absolutely continue. I pointed that out. The issue is trying to make one corporate entity out to be better than another. No one is your friend in this business. Trying to "stick it" to one of them simply means your emotions are more invested than they should be and corporate cheerleading makes absolutely no sense when none of them are doing anything any different if the roles were reversed in favor of/against the other.

Last edited by CGI-Quality - on 28 February 2023