I'm for it. This is normal. Volkswagen Group, Stellantis, Disney, Apple... Who can stop them?
Also I'm against the concessions, why? If you buy a Ferrari/Lambo, would you lend the key?
For or against the acquisition? | |||
| For | 58 | 41.43% | |
| Against | 54 | 38.57% | |
| Neutral | 28 | 20.00% | |
| Total: | 140 | ||
I'm for it. This is normal. Volkswagen Group, Stellantis, Disney, Apple... Who can stop them?
Also I'm against the concessions, why? If you buy a Ferrari/Lambo, would you lend the key?
I'd rather not have everything gobbled up in the industries and hobbies I'm interested, so I'm against it. There are other ways to stay competitive without taking away and locking content completely from your competitors. Sadly MS is taking the Disney route..
Saying that, I'd rather MS spend 68 odd billion on ABK and be on the watchful eye of regulators.. than on a spending spree elsewhere.
| Kyuu said:
[...] |
"It's easier to get away with fucked up practices or at least dial back on "pro-consumer" stuff when you have a massive catalogue of popular games that people will trade their testicles for, that's just common sense."
Easier maybe but would also come with opportunities for competition.
"MS's game lineup upon ABK's acquisition should beat Sony and even Nintendo's in popularity (potentially even if they left Playstation)"
Yeah that's called competition, Ms saw an opportunity to up their game and took it.
"I know enough about Microsoft's other divisions, the history of Xbox, and the market to form reasonable opinions or expectations."
I know enough to know MS don't want to fuck up anymore and don't want to geopardise the success of GamePass on some short term gain anti-consumer practice.
"Sony is capable of getting away with worse practices than before, because they over the years built a really strong lineup of 1st party content that complements the excellent 3rd party support which Microsoft acquisitions are now threatening to weaken"
Yeah that's called competition
"Then you've got Nintendo which doesn't even bother price dropping their hardware or software, never mind putting their new games on a subscription service. Both Sony and Nintendo could get away with things that MS didn't have the luxury to consider, because Xbox's software was decidedly inferior that they had to fall back on value/consumer-friendliness selling points or else they're fucked."
So your against the deal because MS might in the future be able to do what Nintendo and Sony does right now?
"The New MS with the smaller acquisitions + Mojang + Zenimax/Bethesda + ABK isn't the same small player whose entire selling point is for-the-consumer and value. They'll have "other options" to consider, and this is the part that's making Sony panic, and the part that could lead to more unnecessary "revenge-acquisitions" and wastes of money that could have gone to cultivating and establishing countless developers and talents."
Sony's panic is due to its dominant position being challenged but that's how a competitive market is supposed to work. One actor gets a dominant position than an underdog react (propose a new business line, innovate, merge with other) and try to take the lead. That's just part of competition in action.
"If I understood you correctly, you said Sony putting their games day 1 on PS+ is 99% more likely than MS toning down their day and date releases (or something along these lines). Starfield should be a good test to see what kind of impact being on a service day 1 does to the sales performance of a game with a great potential (I'm pretending/assuming Forza Horizon 5 and Halo Infinite never had potential). If the impact on sales is too significant (exiting most charts not long post release), Sony would be less eager to try out Microsoft's model.
Microsoft's "number of players" are padded statistics that don't mean much to Sony or Nintendo. MS has to prove that their games are "selling" gangbusters despite being on GamePass, and only then will the idea of Sony putting their games on PS+ day 1 be feasible for them. They're not going to trade traditional sales for an increase in subs (and neither will Nintendo lol).
Forza Horizon 5 and Halo Infinite both underperformed sales wise. If Starfield underperforms too, MS may consider other options, and Sony won't copy them. Just my opinion."
I think Forza Horizon 5 and halo infinite sold better than you think outside of GamePass, also your to dismissive of the value they bring through GamePass by the way of new subscriptions and retention of current users. Even if Starfield sold 0 copies outside of GamePass but bring value that MS estimated as greater than the title's budget through GamePass it's still a success.
Last edited by EpicRandy - on 16 December 2022| Shinobi-san said: I ended up voting as neutral, although I've mostly been against it during debates etc. |
XBox doesn't need this to compete, they're doing fine and it's only going to hasten MS' exit from the traditional console gaming sector. It's not in MS' best interest to keep making console hardware. The already released the Series S and were planning to release a streaming box, moving away from the hardcore gamer. (Who can play on on PC) The Series X is probably the last hardcore machine from MS.
And you can bet your ass that others will follow. Amazon Games, Netflix Games, Apple are ready to jump in. Google Stadia may have failed for now, but they still have the tech and when MS raises the price of GP, the door will be open for other tech giants to jump in and scramble for a piece of the pie. Plus who knows what Tencent's plans are. Or Meta :/
The services impact on gaming quality is already here. Halo Infinite and GT7 are already far removed from what they would have been 10 years ago. Drip feed content is here to stay.
Yet I'm now still for this deal since Activision-Blizzard needs new direction. And if MS gets blocked, it's likely it will get chopped up and sold anyway. Ending up with Amazon and others maybe. MS won't get blocked though, at most they'll have to make concessions and the deal gets chopped up regardless.
The longer this drags on, the longer the focus is off the bad practices and on the public schoolyard fighting between MS and Sony. It's pathetic at this point, making me lose further respect for both.
Ka-pi96 said:
Not in Japan. |
Huh that's weird. While the amount of Japanese buyers won't be that much I don't get why they wouldn't release it on Steam everywhere.
| Norion said: It'll benefit me a tad but I still lean against it since I'm not a fan of this sort of consolidation. At this point though I hope whatever happens does happen by mid 2023 since it's already been almost a full year since it was announced. |
Consolidation will only invite more consolidation so if this goes through expect more buyouts. After all even if everything releases on everything with these deals you want to be able to counter your main competitor somewhat. So the chance Playstation announces a buyout after this goes trough is rather big. They might not be able to cough op 67 billion, but they can easily buyout either Capcom and/or Square and if Microsoft owns Actibliz and Bethesda, I doubt it will raise to much fuzz with some consessions. They rather stop the deal, but surely they are preparing for plan B in the shadows.
Last edited by Qwark - on 16 December 2022Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar
| Shinobi-san said: Can't see how any prior acquisitions would have the same impact as this. Most that have already happened have not had any direct impact on competing platforms. The bethesda one is the first to really make a difference and thats only once Starfield was announced as exclusive, but even that is understandable and not really "lost" as its never been on other platforms. With franchises like COD though, if it was lost to Sony/PS its major. Some people only play COD exclusively. So its a major deal for a great deal of players. |
Oh, agreed. Don't get me wrong, most of that is said because half the arguments in news posts about it are Sony are buying developers so why shouldn't MS be allowed to spend the profits of Sony for the last decade on a publisher? It stinks of being petty when no one complained about MS buying independent developers like Obsidian and Ninja theory. But if I had my way, no console maker would be allowed to buy another publisher. I think the money could be better spent on new and creative development teams, when all it's being spent on is limiting choice. There has been billions spent all over the place and we have yet to have any new games from it.
Sony do this on a smaller scale with game deals, which MS also did once (and presume is doing in the form of day 1 GP releases), so anyone arguing this in any discussion to me has already lost.
However, I think Activision is a shadow of it's former self, it's corrupt and dirty. It has pretty much dedicated it's entire workforce to developing 1 franchise, which will hurt it in the long run. I think Blizzard are a mess with some of the worse monetisation in the entire industry and MS buying them won't fix that because the MS board won't allow such a purchase if they weren't getting the revenue back.
So take this as you will. :)
Last edited by The Fury - on 16 December 2022Hmm, pie.
Qwark said:
Consolidation will only invite more consolidation so if this goes through expect more buyouts. After all even if everything releases on everything with these deals you don't want to be able to counter your main competitor somewhat. So the chance Playstation announces a buyout after this goes trough is rather big. They might not be able to cough op 67 billion, but they can easily buyout either Capcom and/or Square and if Microsoft owns Actibliz and Bethesda, I doubt it will raise to much fuzz with some consessions. They rather stop the deal, but surely they are preparing for plan B in the shadows. |
Yeah that's why I lean against it. It would likely mean all of Activision Blizzard coming to Steam which I'd like but that's not worth the long term consequences.
| LurkerJ said:
"Why MS made the legally binding deals is irrelevant to those who will benefit from it". It really does though, as the rest of your post shows, the mere fact that the FTC is questioning the buyout is bothering a lot of you for no good reason at all. It's like, here is the biggest buyout in tech history, approve it or get accused of "getting political" and "interfering". So it is important to show that this "interference", regardless of the motivation behind it, is already yielding better outcomes for everyone.
"Consumer is mentioned 14 times, Sony is mentioned 70 times, Call of Duty also abbreviated as CoD is mentioned 156 times" I feel like of what you argue is relying on buzzwords, headlines and pure good faith in the largest or the 2nd largest tech company in the world that has proven and documented anti-competitive behaviour in the past.
You're also heavily relying on converging arguments and lines of thoughts a lot of what you say ends up being random.
Basically what you're doing here is the following "CoD is the main argument, here is a document with the following stats that proves it". You don't even mention that this is the CMA document, not SONY's, not that it matters who wrote it anyway! It doesn't matter because the simple fact is that Bethesda/Activision have some of the biggest IPs in history that can majorly change the outcome of console sales even if CoD remains multiplatform for good, therefore, it doesn't matter who's arguing what, it doesn't change the facts.
I also believe these arguments happen to be too convenient for Microsoft to keep the narrative around CoD going and ignore the much bigger picture, so whoever is using this argument, they need to do a better job because it only helps MS in my opinion to keep the story too focused on CoD.
"Yeah but MS offered assurance it won't, offered legally binding one at that. If that was the concern, Sony would sit with them and try to make Microsoft offer the same kind of deal from Diablo, Wow, Overwatch ... but all they give is silence apparently." "Yes and no logics tell me they won't try a deal on that scale anymore unless this one does not pass" "If Sony were to fight for their user here and not for their margins IMO they would try to strike a deal with MS not only for CoD but most of Acti-Blizz's existing franchises (Diablo, overwatch, Crash...) and I believe MS would agree to all these" Another great examples of you relying on the good will of a giant corporation, while completely ignoring statements made by the giant corporation themselves.
Again, MS has said it will be "case by case" basis, and until very recently, the narrative by MS has been "we're not done with acquisitions".
So much so that the "who should MS acquire next?" has become recurrent theme in many xbox threads (including the xbox empire on vgc). But here you are, asking me to dismiss all of that and in addition, you are also telling me SONY can secure all other IPs for 10 years if they sat down with MS because you believe it
and because you believe that Microsoft is only going to acquire other publishers if this one fails despite their publicly declared intents.
Sorry, I don't think you're actually convinced with your own statements, they're just... too naive and I don't believe you are naive. Honestly, I can't believe some are making these arguments, even if we lived in a world in which MS hasn't publicly declared their intents.
"And I agree 100%. Though one would hope a decision on this would be devoid of political interference and factually based which is completely contrary to what we've seen with the FTC decision and reasons." Well, it would be a nicer world indeed if money and ulterior motives didn't influence politics, but honestly, if you actually think about, letting this acquisition pass without scrutiny is a bigger telltale signs of political interference, because it indicates that someone isn't looking at the biggest tech merger ever when that someone's sole job is to look into these sorts of things.
Moreover, Tech giants, including Apple, FB, MS, Tesla have become experts at influencing these sorts of decisions and lobbying governments around the world, by far one of the biggest spenders out there and they increase their lobbying spendings year over year. So even if these challenges are raised against the acquisition are driven by lobbyists, MS shouldn't complain someone else is using their tactics to influence regulators decisions.
|
Shinobi-san said:
Have not seen any responses to this concern from those that are overly positive about this deal. Is the thinking that Xbox got the biggest publisher therefore they don't care what happens next? Or is the assumption that the other major companies don't have the will or money to follow suite? |
Was about to reply to Farsala but since you invited for a response I'll reply to both using your post.
Farsala's concern is valid and I agree it is a likely scenario. It's a little bit of a slippery slope but a likely one.
However, in the case the scenario end up true, I welcome every acquisition and reaction from the competition as long as it doesn't unequivocally and unavoidably create an anti-competitive market like let's say Microsoft buys Playstation. Sure I might end up, as a consumer, on the losing side of some deal but never will I hold it against any entity for fighting for themselves.
And personal thinking aside legally speaking only, you can't block a deal because other actors would become more likely to make a deal on their own that's not a valid argument legally speaking even if it's a completely valid personal opinion.
Last edited by EpicRandy - on 16 December 2022