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Shaunodon said:

Luke Stephens having one of the most negative responses is also ironic, considering he's someone who goes out of his way to not be negative of modern games and sit on the fence for as long as possible, even when he shouldn't.

But these people are all just rage-baiting bigots, right?

No. I asked you a question, if you're just listening to rage-baiters, solely due to the way you presented your first post.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - 2 days ago

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Also, I didn't call the Youtubers you're listening to, bigots...I just said rage-baiters...You added the bigots. I said some Steam reviewers are bigots though, Lmao. I wasn't the first to point that out though, I think Criss mentioned how some of the reviews on Steam were just crying about pronouns, less than 1 hour, review and refund type bullshit which makes the 80% even more impressive.



Ryuu96 said:
Shaunodon said:

I don't have a circle. I just find whoever's talking about a product and keep listening if they seem like a sensible person. I'm not even subbed to most of these channels. The last one I'd never even seen before but the video just popped up randomly in my recommendations. So you're saying all these people are just rage-baiting bigots:

Those are all the reviews I listened to so far. And just like me, all of them tried their best to find positive aspects to talk about. But just like me, they were all generally disappointed and whelmed by the game.

If you think this is a strong start for a game that was teased way back at the start of the generation as a potential system selling title, I don't know what to tell you.

No, I do not believe those are all rage-baiting bigots, but I do believe you're picking and choosing what to see so you can express fake outrage. You've posted a bunch of YouTubers who disliked the game, I've posted just as many, if not more, people who loved the game in this very thread, but those are ignored by yourself and only the YouTubers that have popped up in your recommendations count.

I can find positive aspects to talk about easy, as can many others, but we aren't going round like "Avowed is the best thing ever! Better than everything else! Our opinions are the only things that matter!" like you are trying to do with a select few YouTubers. You came in dooming the shit out of the game, comparing it to every other game, telling them how much they've failed and quite frankly, your criticism wasn't even well presented.

Yes, I do believe Avowed has got solid reviews (that's...a fact), and a solid reception from users, I do not know the full extent of its performance yet, but the charts are showing positive signs, Imo. I don't really see how when it was revealed has any relevance, videogames are revealed years in advance all the time now, can hardly avoid it.

And you can't just slap "It was meant to be a system seller so it's a failure" to every title, how many systems was it meant to sell? What score does something need to hit to be a system seller? How much mass market appeal does something need to have to be a system seller? Even some videogames which sell tens of millions I wouldn't exactly call system sellers, even some video games which critic in the 90s I wouldn't call system sellers. It's a useless description to dismiss every game as a failure because it didn't push an arbitrary amount of consoles.

The only sources I saw you reference were ResetEra which I ignore on reflex and steam reviews for a game that's been out proper for not even two whole days.

Of course I only bothered to use some reviews I found on YouTube for now because they're the only ones who actually played through the game. Outside of that the only reference is my own honest experience.

It's not like I came here to make a professional critique. I figured I was just pointing out the obvious situation that's unfolding right now. But most people here don't agree with it. So when it turns out to be a failure in 'hindsight' and Fable doesn't learn from it's mistakes, I wonder who we can blame at that point, since we can't even agree with what's truly a failure right now.



What's so hard about leaving your thoughts on a game without it becoming a commentary about why your opinion is the correct one. It's maddening.



Ryuu96 said:

Also, I didn't call the Youtubers you're listening to, bigots...I just said rage-baiters...You added the bigots. I said some Steam reviewers are bigots though, Lmao. I wasn't the first to point that out though, I think Criss mentioned how some of the reviews on Steam were just crying about pronouns, less than 1 hour, review and refund type bullshit which makes the 80% even more impressive.

I assumed you thought everyone who was negative about this game was a bigot in some way. That's my fault for misunderstanding and conflating. You still shouldn't use the word 'bigot' so freely. Not because it's offensive but because it's a lazy criticism to make of people you just don't agree with. Most of those people are probably flat out trolls or bots to begin with. Saying they're bigots when they haven't actually offered any genuine feedback just reflects poorly on you, because you're actually taking them seriously.



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smroadkill15 said:

What's so hard about leaving your thoughts on a game without it becoming a commentary about why your opinion is the correct one. It's maddening.

The game is not going to do well despite what kind of player count numbers they use to try and hide it. That has nothing to do with my opinion, the writing is on the wall. You can choose to not see it or stubbornly disagree with me, that's your perogative. But that has nothing to do with my opinion on the game.

The fact that Veilguard and Avowed have dragged down the quality of once beloved RPG franchises, that Fable could easily be following in their footsteps is what concerns me on a personal level.



Ryuu96 said:

Please don't let this be about Avowed's CCU either...

The Outer Worlds all time peak CCU was 20,349 and Avowed is mid-week (after 5 days of early access) at 17k. The Outer Worlds went on to sell over 5m units. We went through this same song and dance with Indiana Jones as well (which Avowed is doing better than) and Indiana Jones went on to do 4m players in just under 2 months, had "solid" sales in December (Mat Piscatella) and Disney is reportedly happy with it and wants more.

Avowed meanwhile is around the same as The Outer Worlds which was a success, and once again, we do not know Xbox, Windows Store numbers, but now also, we don't even know Battle.net numbers. Avowed is performing based on Steam better than Indiana Jones which is an IP of over 30 years of history meanwhile, likely the majority of people playing Avowed have never even heard of Pillars of Eternity and think Avowed is a new IP, Lol.

I've mentioned this in the main PC thread, but I will mention it here since I have been monitoring this thread for the past week.

I strongly feel that this site is falling into the Steam forum's little pitfall trap (And I know full well Steam forums are a cesspool of bots, award junkies and warring idiots), where people end up putting far more gambit and focus on Steam's fluctuating CCU data, and also acting as if it is hard sales data.

The problem with this type of focus, is that the data isn't entirely accurate 100% of the time, plus it does not account for total sales, and who has the game installed, who has yet to boot it up, and who has even finished the game vs who has just started playing it (for SP games, expect CCU data to steadily drop over time from it's all time peak range, MP games are expected to rise due to content drops and balance changes made over the following months/years).

I also feel like Steam's CCU data itself is being used for favouritism and rock tossing around multiple ecosystems (I have seen videos listing posts made by Sony fans calling Xbox games "dead" via Steam CCU data and the opposite in return as one such example, and then of course this site, where I had a debate with Killer7, and Steam CCU data was instantly brought up as if it was sales data for the first Spider-man release on Steam).

I Strongly suggest we on this site not cling so hard onto Steam's CCU data, because it's not 100% reliable, and tends to fluctuate often. People still to this day monitor CCU data for SP games, especially when that makes no sense, because people tend to play and finish an SP game and put it down to play another game, thus those numbers will dwindle a little, but by no means does that make that a "dead game" factor. 

I just feel like some folks on the net are using half the data as if it is hard data, especially with the lacking data from the other ecosystems, which heavily rely on devs and the publishers to eventually come out with said sales data at a later date (or within the first month/2 weeks at best). 

As a last note, shikamaru317 stated that Avowed is the #1 top seller, but that was the other day, today the top seller is MH Wilds:

Just to be clear I am not against Avowed, it is not the game for me at all, but I just wanted to bring up the whole Steam CCU data focus this community on this site is recently peering into.

Last edited by Chazore - 2 days ago

Mankind, in its arrogance and self-delusion, must believe they are the mirrors to God in both their image and their power. If something shatters that mirror, then it must be totally destroyed.

Shaunodon said:
konnichiwa said:

Uhhh, Luke stated that the game was a mess for him as in a technical nightmare but he enjoyed it when it worked

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/KfvNY0G5JP8

Luke is a mixed bag and he have stated that he like others will farm videos on both sides of the coin 'Positive and Negative' Can't really say he is going out of the way.

I would say Easy allies is one of the big groups that are not going out of their way to be Negative or farm on it...

Most people say they enjoy the game. I generally enjoy the game. But it's also completely lifeless, uninteresting and ultimately forgettable. And that's what most people ultimately come to. They only recommend it through gamepass, because gamepass is a budget service made for games that you might feel are worth trying but don't actually want to buy.

How many outright say you should buy the game full price as soon as possible? How many are even remotely that convincted in their recommendation? They're all very ho-hum, trying their best to not be negative. But the general apathy is hard not to see; though people here have obviously trained themselves well to not see what they don't want to.

It's not like I wanted this game to be disappointing either. I just won't lie to myself about it.

You are right, It is a fact that I agree with you on, a lot of people are saying try Avowed on gamepass while those same reviewers are not saying try Kingdom come Deliverance II on gamepass but it is kind of similar....going trough the commetns on Steam/Youtube/tiktok/Pinksky or whatever plenty will say Kingdom Deliverance II is not for everyone and try it for you buy it.  'Combat can be a pain'  'game is very slow' 'can feel very Intimidating' comments are not rare..

Gameranx from the before you buy literally used the phrase 'Yes it is not for everyone'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ft9oXXO3lA&t=1s






Shaunodon said:
konnichiwa said:

Uhhh, Luke stated that the game was a mess for him as in a technical nightmare but he enjoyed it when it worked

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/KfvNY0G5JP8

Luke is a mixed bag and he have stated that he like others will farm videos on both sides of the coin 'Positive and Negative' Can't really say he is going out of the way.

I would say Easy allies is one of the big groups that are not going out of their way to be Negative or farm on it...

Most people say they enjoy the game. I generally enjoy the game. But it's also completely lifeless, uninteresting and ultimately forgettable. And that's what most people ultimately come to. They only recommend it through gamepass, because gamepass is a budget service made for games that you might feel are worth trying but don't actually want to buy.

How many outright say you should buy the game full price as soon as possible? How many are even remotely that convincted in their recommendation? They're all very ho-hum, trying their best to not be negative. But the general apathy is hard not to see; though people here have obviously trained themselves well to not see what they don't want to.

It's not like I wanted this game to be disappointing either. I just won't lie to myself about it.

Disagree, I enjoy the game, I also think it is interesting and the world will likely stick with me, it makes me almost want to play Pillars of Eternity 1/2 because I'm loving the lore but I dislike those types of videogames, instead I'll likely go on a lore deep-dive on Wiki, Lol. You're plucking your assumptions out of thin air because you're sucked up in negativity.

Anyway, I saw plenty of people on ResetEra telling people to dip into the early access because they were loving it instead of simply waiting for it to become "free" on Game Pass. Thousands of people dipped into the early access on Steam for $90 which was a complete rip-off low-key and I would not have paid $90 at all for 5 days early and a few free skins and yet during early access period, Avowed had over 80% in user rating on Steam, implying people were happy with their decision to be ripped off, Lmao.

I would absolutely recommend Avowed but why the hell would I recommend anyone who has access to Game Pass to buy the game? Makes no sense. If someone has Steam only then sure, I'd recommend to buy it, as would many others, Lol. Part of the reasons I even dipped into early access was because of the very positive impressions on ResetEra tipping me over.

This feels like a dig at the thread as a whole, that we are just fanboys seeing whatever we want, and only your opinion is true, I've provided just as much, if not more, counter to your argument in this thread. I ain't lying to myself about anything, the fact that you believe that and it upsets you so much, makes me believe you just want to wallow in negativity.



konnichiwa said:
Shaunodon said:

Most people say they enjoy the game. I generally enjoy the game. But it's also completely lifeless, uninteresting and ultimately forgettable. And that's what most people ultimately come to. They only recommend it through gamepass, because gamepass is a budget service made for games that you might feel are worth trying but don't actually want to buy.

How many outright say you should buy the game full price as soon as possible? How many are even remotely that convincted in their recommendation? They're all very ho-hum, trying their best to not be negative. But the general apathy is hard not to see; though people here have obviously trained themselves well to not see what they don't want to.

It's not like I wanted this game to be disappointing either. I just won't lie to myself about it.

You are right, It is a fact that I agree with you on, a lot of people are saying try Avowed on gamepass while those same reviewers are not saying try Kingdom come Deliverance II on gamepass but it is kind of similar....going trough the commetns on Steam/Youtube/tiktok/Pinksky or whatever plenty will say Kingdom Deliverance II is not for everyone and try it for you buy it.  'Combat can be a pain'  'game is very slow' 'can feel very Intimidating' comments are not rare..

Gameranx from the before you buy literally used the phrase 'Yes it is not for everyone'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ft9oXXO3lA&t=1s

No game should be for everyone. What's important is that Kingdom Come is at least aimed at the audience that pays for it's development.

Who is Avowed for? People that are Game Pass lifers and will try everything available on the sub if it's notable enough? How many people would recommend outright buying the game if it wasn't on Game Pass? Who would you even recommend it to?