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Forums - Gaming - PS3's power locked away, says Free Radical

kn said:
but my point here is that Sony needs to get past the "difficult to develop for" stage before too many developers either go multi or give up altogether...

 they did, its called playstation edge.

 http://www.gdconf.com/news/tracks/programming/sony_presents_playstation_edge.htm

 



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Every console ever made has untapped power early in its life. Look at late-life games like God of War or RE4 compared to launch titles... There will be games that look much better than MotorStorm or Lair even, later in the PS3's life, just like there will be games later in the Wii's life that look amazing.



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Well hopefully the Playstation edge will help, but how exactly do you know? While it's probable that this new toolkit will help out, you can't assume that it'll solve all the ps3's development ills.



Celb said:
shams said:

I think Sony has the wrong approach now - almost certainly.

I'm not sure what "types" of games they are trying to create - and maybe I won't understand until I see something completely mindblowing.

But this is a GAMES machine for heavens sake, not some distributed weather simulator device that the planet relies on. Surely we have reached a stage in the industry where "ease of development" is more important than "absolute power, via banging your head against a wall"?

Look at Unreal Engine 3. Everyone loves it - why? Sure it has great tech, with some cool features - but its the EDITING tools - the ease of use - that really sells it. It means you can make better games in less time, with less money. And this is more important than ever.

By the time people get the "hang" of the PS3, MS will be ready to release the next Xbox. It will be EASIER to program (better libraries, higher level APIs, etc..), and will blow away the PS3 (at that stage of being "unlocked") technically.

...

As devices get more powerful, the importance of "ease of use" increases, and squeezing everything out of the device is less important. It was critically important with the PS1 generation, very important with the PS2 (although the PS2 never competed with the Xbox)... and not really important at all with this generation.

Look at the Wii - and how well it is doing. Even a monkey developer should be able to get several times the power of a Wii out of a PS3... and that's without even trying.

Sony are digging themselves a deeper hole - and have just developed a much bigger shovel.


Wow put down the hateraid.

Many devs already get the PS3, Factor5 has already taped power that 360 can't do. The amonunt of progressive mesh Lair runs is beyond 360s capability, and they have said its only half the PS3s power.

and whats your point with unrealengine3 ? the engine runs on PS3 so any dev can lease/rent/get it and make PS3 games easy.

 

Hateraid? Nice call! ;)

"Many devs already get the PS3, Factor5 has already taped power that 360 can't do." - this is completely wrong (was going to use a "stronger" word, but refrained myself).  Show me a single cross-platform title (i.e. running on the 360 & PS3) that looks or runs significantly better on the PS3. We have been over this, and there isn't one. Sony have failed to show that the PS3 is a significantly more powerful device that the 360.

"and whats your point with unrealengine3" - did you actualy read what is written? Go up and have a read. I am simply making the point that in todays world "ease of development" is significantly more important than "massive untapped power, that is very difficult to utilise" (given everything else is equal).

...

Of course the reality is that everything else is NOT equal. The 360 has a much larger install base than the PS3. Many PS2 exclusives are now either cross-platform, or coming out for the 360 alone. The PS3 is selling significantly slower than the PS2 ever did.

And to top this all off, the significantly weaker consoles/handhelds (Wii, PS2, DS, PSP) are easily outselling both the powerful consoles (360 & PS3).

Not only is the PS3 harder to develop for (*) than every other device on the market, but the market is saying that absolute processing power does not sell. 

Reality has an anti-PS3 bias ;)

(* - a good friend of mine is working on the PS3 engine used by Team Bondi - La Noire - and I have spoken to him at length about the PS3 architecture.  We were both super-hyped when we originally saw the specs, but he has been quite disappointed with the device ever since).

 



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shams said:
 

Hateraid? Nice call! ;)

"Many devs already get the PS3, Factor5 has already taped power that 360 can't do." - this is completely wrong (was going to use a "stronger" word, but refrained myself). Show me a single cross-platform title (i.e. running on the 360 & PS3) that looks or runs significantly better on the PS3. We have been over this, and there isn't one. Sony have failed to show that the PS3 is a significantly more powerful device that the 360.

"and whats your point with unrealengine3" - did you actualy read what is written? Go up and have a read. I am simply making the point that in todays world "ease of development" is significantly more important than "massive untapped power, that is very difficult to utilise" (given everything else is equal).

...

Of course the reality is that everything else is NOT equal. The 360 has a much larger install base than the PS3. Many PS2 exclusives are now either cross-platform, or coming out for the 360 alone. The PS3 is selling significantly slower than the PS2 ever did.

And to top this all off, the significantly weaker consoles/handhelds (Wii, PS2, DS, PSP) are easily outselling both the powerful consoles (360 & PS3).

Not only is the PS3 harder to develop for (*) than every other device on the market, but the market is saying that absolute processing power does not sell.

Reality has an anti-PS3 bias ;)

(* - a good friend of mine is working on the PS3 engine used by Team Bondi - La Noire - and I have spoken to him at length about the PS3 architecture. We were both super-hyped when we originally saw the specs, but he has been quite disappointed with the device ever since).

 

 Um no, iam completey right.  watch Igns interview with the pres of Factor5, FACT is the amount of Progressive Mesh Lair is using cant be done by the 360.  

How can a cross-platform title show PS3s power if its made to the specs of the lowest common denominator ? that being the core 360.

 The market is saying 600 is to much for the awerage joe making minumun wage.  When a game is really using that absolute processing power we will see if it sales or not.

good friend belhh blehh.  Kojima, SquareEnix, Factor5, Insomniacs, Noughty Dog have prasied PS3 capability.  (these are people that are actually developing on the PS3) and they happen to be the top devs in the business.

 

 



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good friend belhh blehh. Kojima, SquareEnix, Factor5, Insomniacs, Noughty Dog have prasied PS3 capability. (these are people that are actually developing on the PS3) and they happen to be the top devs in the business. Factor 5 and Insomniac develop exclusively for Sony and Naughty Dog is owned by Sony. Kojima and SquareEnix currently are staking a lot on the PS3. They are hardly going to bag the PS3 are they?



Sony already has issues with processing and frame rate drops with what games it already has, I'd dread to see them try and attempt anything more powerful than what they've already done.



Killzone 2 will show you the .....power.......of.......a.............super grill??? hehehe enough with the joke this discussion is going no where......we want see a crossplatform showing off ps3 is superior, then fanboy will name lair,heavenly,uncharted, then bring up the 1st and 2nd party's comment. this will never end.. 1. PS2 was hard to develop, it win because it had a super head start, by the time other system release. its already over with the console war with its huge lead. Developer had no choice but to stick with the hard to develop system, because sony already won that war. 2.Now this time is different, slow sales, hard to develop, and a hot selling Wii around. Developer had more choice, not to mention Wii and X360 is alot easier to develop for. 3. there is no doubt the cell had more processing power than the 360's cpu, but will developer willing to spend the huge amount of $$$$ to unlock that power??? 4. compare GPU, the 360 got a better gpu than ps3. fanboy can argue if a game is programed rendering graphics with both cell and rsx together can result a much better graphics game than anything 360 can offer, but if developer willing to spend that kind of time and money to write an engine that can share graphic rendering between the Cell and RSX then we wont had seen those bad looking games from saturn days when compared to psx.



Rath said:
good friend belhh blehh. Kojima, SquareEnix, Factor5, Insomniacs, Noughty Dog have prasied PS3 capability. (these are people that are actually developing on the PS3) and they happen to be the top devs in the business. Factor 5 and Insomniac develop exclusively for Sony and Naughty Dog is owned by Sony. Kojima and SquareEnix currently are staking a lot on the PS3. They are hardly going to bag the PS3 are they?

Point is its not just the home crowd saying it, 3rd party also.

 

 

 

 



Pk9394 said:
Killzone 2 will show you the .....power.......of.......a.............super grill??? hehehe enough with the joke this discussion is going no where......we want see a crossplatform showing off ps3 is superior, then fanboy will name lair,heavenly,uncharted, then bring up the 1st and 2nd party's comment. this will never end.. 1. PS2 was hard to develop, it win because it had a super head start, by the time other system release. its already over with the console war with its huge lead. Developer had no choice but to stick with the hard to develop system, because sony already won that war. 2.Now this time is different, slow sales, hard to develop, and a hot selling Wii around. Developer had more choice, not to mention Wii and X360 is alot easier to develop for. 3. there is no doubt the cell had more processing power than the 360's cpu, but will developer willing to spend the huge amount of $$$$ to unlock that power??? 4. compare GPU, the 360 got a better gpu than ps3. fanboy can argue if a game is programed rendering graphics with both cell and rsx together can result a much better graphics game than anything 360 can offer, but if developer willing to spend that kind of time and money to write an engine that can share graphic rendering between the Cell and RSX then we wont had seen those bad looking games from saturn days when compared to psx.

 then fanboy writes this useless stuff.