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Forums - Sales Discussion - Xbox Series X|S Outsells PS5 Again - Global Hardware Mar 27-Apr 2

If Destiny was one of the most successful GaaS models then they wouldn’t have had to change that model like four times since the franchise started. The latest is where they basically have a free to play title loaded with MTX but they still charge for content and gate people out who don’t pay and will even remove content people paid for. It’s not as popular as it used to be but it’s still a pretty shooter with great gunplay and a lot of people have invested too much to stop.

What will be interesting is seeing what they do next for Sony. It will obviously be GaaS.



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PotentHerbs said:
The_Liquid_Laser said:

We all got your point, but we think you're delusional.  For example, you say things like "If anyone could do it, Sony and it's growing studio's and partnerships are at the top of that list."

No.

Sony is not that type of company.  They do not just pull off amazing software out of nowhere.  That would be Nintendo, and even then there is a huge luck factor.  Sony has tried to make their own online shooter before, and it could not compete with either Halo or CoD.  Nintendo actually has made their own online shooter, Splatoon, by taking a different approach to online shooters.  It's success is kind of amazing and at the same time still not on CoD's level.

The way to make your statement correct would be to say, "If anyone could do it, it's Nintendo, and even then they can't do it."  Sony is not known for pulling amazing IP out of nowhere with fewer resources, and CoD is the type of huge success that cannot be replicated by anyone.  Sony's strengths are things like "consistency" and "partnerships with third party developers", but that can only go so far when Microsoft is buying up major third party developers.

Sony has no simple counter to what Microsoft is doing.  They are in a bad position.

Sony has created a handful of 15M - 25M+ selling tentpole IP every generation: Gran Turismo, God of War, Uncharted, The Last of Us, Horizon, as well as having Marvel IP like SpiderMan and Wolverine to leverage. Unless you mean that Sony cannot replicate Call of Duty's success, which I do agree is a monumental task, but not all Microsoft IP have close to the pull that COD does. Something like TES? Sony can definitely replicate in terms of success based on their portfolio. 

Also, not sure why you're not factoring Bungie into the equation. Destiny is up there with Apex Legends and Fortnite as one of the most successful GaaS models of the last generation. Sony not having previous success with online shooters is irrelevant when Bungie is now part of the fold. 

Not sleeping on Bungie, they're avoiding and ignoring it, along with all the other blockbuster AAA new IP Sony has been pulling out of nowhere. Though maybe that's because Sony is always copying everyone else, which apparently they can't do that either?

Sure, Sony made somewhat of an attempt in the past, but are we really comparing MS and XB right now in 2022, (who still don't own Activision Blizzard just yet but probably will), to Sony and PS back in like 2006?

From 2006 to 2022 PS hasn't been able to diversify or improve?

So Nintendo made Splatoon, which is quite different from COD so you say, yet is comparable to Sony potentially attempting to copy COD? Nintendo doesn't have a blue ocean, stay out of Sony and MS way type of business plan? So Sony, nor anyone for that matter could copy COD, and on top of that, Sony also couldn't make a different COD like Nintendo has with Splatoon, and it wouldn't become a big thing and wouldn't hurt COD in any way?

I guess I could just end the entire discussion with, can Game Pass ever truly work?

No!

I guess that's that then.

Unfortunately I need to take into account your Sony third party is screwed point.

Who wouldn't like to ignore it, but it's kind of important, because if the MS plan is to just buy all the food so Sony starves, well then, that's definitely the kind of company everyone wants to cheer for and be a part of.

I bend the knee and kiss the Halo ring in allegiance to MS, lord of all service lands.

How can I be of service to you, Prince Phil, Duke of Xbox?



Kyuu said:

Even after the Zenimax and AB acquisitions, I'd bet Microsoft would still be behind Sony in sales for exclusives/console exclusives, especially if their games do make GamePass day and date, which would increase subscriptions at the cost of lower sales (but possibly higher overall revenue). Counting MS game sales on Playstation consoles should put them above Sony's level, but it will not be a threat whatsoever coz they'll continue to sell Playstation systems for Sony who will also get their (30%?) cut.

With Bungie in the mix, Sony has never been in a better position as far as 1st party studios. And it shouldn't surprise anyone if they announce one or two more big acquisitions along the lines of FromSoftware.

Their only obvious challenge atm is production. I don't know what's going on but Microsoft is kicking their ass right now in production, and this advantage could snowball into trouble for PS5's potential and mindshare. Sony could have comfortably had their best generation; I think they still have this potential if they manage to sort things out within 12 months, otherwise it's unlikely.

Rumor is MS is paying more for priority chip production. Now MS could have more chips if they shifted and made less XB Series X wafers and more XB Series S wafers. That would lead to more XB Series S units to sell, and it sounds like Series S sales are the cause of the sales increase, which wouldn't really be a surprise.

I'd bet it's both.

TSMC, who makes the chips, is way overburdened and can't keep up with demand, so now every time they can increase production somewhat, they can simply make companies get into a bidding war.

TSMC is one of just a few of these chip makers, who's the go to choice for many reasons. Sony and MS basically can't change to another chip maker or add extra production from another, and wouldn't for many reasons. They have to rely on TSMC.

Now TSMC likely doesn't want to upset Sony or MS too much, so they would probably decide something like, if there's 10% more production available now to MS and Sony, and MS outbids Sony, as per the rumors, MS will likely only get maybe 7.5% and Sony would still get 2.5%.

That way both companies get more chips than they originally contracted for. MS just get's a bigger slice of the extra because they paid more.

MS can then also tell TSMC to make less Series X wafers, and more Series S wafers, and now MS has way more units to sell than Sony.

Last edited by ConservagameR - on 16 April 2022

PotentHerbs said:

Sony has created a handful of 15M - 25M+ selling tentpole IP every generation: Gran Turismo, God of War, Uncharted, The Last of Us, Horizon, as well as having Marvel IP like SpiderMan and Wolverine to leverage. Unless you mean that Sony cannot replicate Call of Duty's success, which I do agree is a monumental task, but not all Microsoft IP have close to the pull that COD does. Something like TES? Sony can definitely replicate in terms of success based on their portfolio. 

Also, not sure why you're not factoring Bungie into the equation. Destiny is up there with Apex Legends and Fortnite as one of the most successful GaaS models of the last generation. Sony not having previous success with online shooters is irrelevant when Bungie is now part of the fold. 

ConservagameR said:

Not sleeping on Bungie, they're avoiding and ignoring it, along with all the other blockbuster AAA new IP Sony has been pulling out of nowhere. Though maybe that's because Sony is always copying everyone else, which apparently they can't do that either?

Sure, Sony made somewhat of an attempt in the past, but are we really comparing MS and XB right now in 2022, (who still don't own Activision Blizzard just yet but probably will), to Sony and PS back in like 2006?

From 2006 to 2022 PS hasn't been able to diversify or improve?

So Nintendo made Splatoon, which is quite different from COD so you say, yet is comparable to Sony potentially attempting to copy COD? Nintendo doesn't have a blue ocean, stay out of Sony and MS way type of business plan? So Sony, nor anyone for that matter could copy COD, and on top of that, Sony also couldn't make a different COD like Nintendo has with Splatoon, and it wouldn't become a big thing and wouldn't hurt COD in any way?

I guess I could just end the entire discussion with, can Game Pass ever truly work?

No!

I guess that's that then.

Unfortunately I need to take into account your Sony third party is screwed point.

Who wouldn't like to ignore it, but it's kind of important, because if the MS plan is to just buy all the food so Sony starves, well then, that's definitely the kind of company everyone wants to cheer for and be a part of.

I bend the knee and kiss the Halo ring in allegiance to MS, lord of all service lands.

How can I be of service to you, Prince Phil, Duke of Xbox?

Their "Halo killer" and "Super Smash killer" still can't beat Halo or Super Smash, let alone CoD.



HoangNhatAnh said:

Their "Halo killer" and "Super Smash killer" still can't beat Halo or Super Smash, let alone CoD.

You living in the past? Destiny 2 is a bigger multiplayer title than Halo and Smash. Call of Duty is one of the few games that can currently top it. 



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PotentHerbs said:
HoangNhatAnh said:

Their "Halo killer" and "Super Smash killer" still can't beat Halo or Super Smash, let alone CoD.

You living in the past? Destiny 2 is a bigger multiplayer title than Halo and Smash. Call of Duty is one of the few games that can currently top it. 

I'm talking about Killzone and PS All Star, are you high or something? Also, talking about sales and revenue, Minecraft > Destiny 2.



HoangNhatAnh said:

I'm talking about Killzone and PS All Star, are you high or something? Also, talking about sales and revenue, Minecraft > Destiny 2.

You're talking about Sony games from a time period where Microsoft didn't own TES, Minecraft, or Call of Duty. Why would Killzone or PS All Stars be relevant now when Sony owns Bungie? 

Last edited by PotentHerbs - on 18 April 2022

Kyuu said:

Imagine still being stuck at Killzone Shadow Fall (2013) and Playstation Allstars (2012).

If you can't see that Sony will be able to create/fund at least one or two new major MP centric games/series this generation, then you're all in for a rude awakening. In addition to acquiring Bungie, several Sony studios are already working on MP/GaaS projects, and they're investing big on 2nd party and large independant studios to make their own ambitious/AAA MP projects, which I imagine most will make it on PC, some at launch and others at later dates. PC is essential for them to succeed here.

It isn't far fetched that Microsoft's threat of taking major MP games away from Playstation could compell Sony to try even harder to address one of their weaknesses (which was masked by the likes of Call of Duty). Without Playstation, Zenimax/AB games popularity would decline drastically anyways, so the competition wouldn't be against CoD, or The Elder Scrolls, or Fallout as we know them.

It's just more wishful thinking, like pretending Destiny 2 isn't a massively popular FPS MMO, or that Sony won't spend big on their gaming division. We even got a ton of people in this very thread that think there is a chance the Xbox Series consoles wins NA by 20M+ like the Xbox 360 without Call of Duty exclusivity lol.



PotentHerbs said:
Kyuu said:

Imagine still being stuck at Killzone Shadow Fall (2013) and Playstation Allstars (2012).

If you can't see that Sony will be able to create/fund at least one or two new major MP centric games/series this generation, then you're all in for a rude awakening. In addition to acquiring Bungie, several Sony studios are already working on MP/GaaS projects, and they're investing big on 2nd party and large independant studios to make their own ambitious/AAA MP projects, which I imagine most will make it on PC, some at launch and others at later dates. PC is essential for them to succeed here.

It isn't far fetched that Microsoft's threat of taking major MP games away from Playstation could compell Sony to try even harder to address one of their weaknesses (which was masked by the likes of Call of Duty). Without Playstation, Zenimax/AB games popularity would decline drastically anyways, so the competition wouldn't be against CoD, or The Elder Scrolls, or Fallout as we know them.

It's just more wishful thinking, like pretending Destiny 2 isn't a massively popular FPS MMO, or that Sony won't spend big on their gaming division. We even got a ton of people in this very thread that think there is a chance the Xbox Series consoles wins NA by 20M+ like the Xbox 360 without Call of Duty exclusivity lol.

Show your work. Please link to these “tons” of posts claiming whatever sales crap you just stated ?



LudicrousSpeed said:

Show your work. Please link to these “tons” of posts claiming whatever sales crap you just stated

The work is in this very thread if you bothered to look. 

There's the initial post from Archbrix on pg.6 with 3 likes, disputing the claim that Xbox can't win NA in a landslide like the 360 without complete Call of Duty exclusivity, setting off various reply chains. There's a response from ironmanDX on pg.7 with 7 likes, saying zero chance is far too low for the Series consoles winning NA in similar fashion as the 360, but to be fair he did admit to a misunderstanding. And then there's Dulfite post on pg.7 offering to serve crow with 3+ likes when the Series consoles win NA like the 360 did. We even got a few posters contextualizing how difficult it would be for the Series consoles to win NA like the 360 did.

Don't blame me for mentioning all this hyperbole. I'm not the one making outrageous predictions yet alone doubling down like Archbrix or Dulfite. And no, I don't buy the majority of these people were misguided about what winning NA in a landslide like the Xbox 360 meant, when other posters made that distinction, and when ironmanDX cleared up his misunderstanding, it only got 1 like.