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Forums - Politics Discussion - Russia and Ukraine flashpoint

Ryuu96 said:
S.Peelman said:

So Ukraine won Eurovision just now. I wonder how Russia will respond.

Probably claim that every country which gave points to Ukraine is full of Nazis.

Yes, something like that.

Cobretti2 said:

To be fair when I found out Ukraine were participating didn't even need to watch to know the outcome.

The preview I saw of all the songs they were all underwhelming though. Maybe I am getting harsher at my older age lol.

On one hand I like that Ukraine won because it’s a nice gesture, but on the other it is just that, a gesture, and they really only won because of this war which is kind of unfair. I imagine this would give the artists a double feeling as well.

For what it’s worth Ukraine was fourth in jury points, but had a landslide victory in televotes. Of-topic but yeah the quality was quite mediocre this year.

I read that president Zelenskyy would like to see the contest be hosted in Mariupol next year. Here’s hoping they can!



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KiigelHeart said:
Qwark said:

This war is economic suicide for Russia it didn't stop them. Nuking Ukraine and let the wind blow radioactive ashes and particles over Europe is a way out to say I lost, but so did my enemie and most of its allies. Which will probably also be pushed by the UN to restore Ukraine and deal with the refugee crisis. Also using a nuke would ensure NATO not going after Russia. I mean which country will invade another country which not only had enough nukes to kill every civilian in that country but is also willing to use it. The old system of bilateral trade ensures peace doesn't work anymore.

They did not expect this to be an economic suicide. Nuking Ukraine and letting a wind blow radioactive waste everywhere is not a way out of anything, not even Russian leaders would be dumb enough to use that kind of logic. Using a nuke would ensure they'll lose whatever support they have from countries like China.

Why would China care so much though. It's not like trade with Europe will stop or even significantly decrease because of it, nor will Europe impose sanctions on China. Also Europe will still likely keep buying gas from Russia, perhaps less oil although an EU accord is unlikely. However Ukraine is spirit will be broken after a nuclear attack and probably the war will be over pretty fast afterwards.

I really don't see nuking Ukraine will have that much of a backlash for Russia. Sure UN would say this is bad Russia, don't do that anymore. Especially if they sell their oil a bit cheaper than other OPEC countries. Most developing countries like India and China will buy as much energy as they can regardless. For Russia this is far cheaper than waging this war anyway.

I hope Russia doesn't nuke Ukraine, but at this moment they are losing and don't have a non humiliating way out. So I think it's not as far fetched as we think. Especially since non western countries+ Japan, Taiwan and South Korea, by now practically criticized the sanctions more than the invasion. China, Brazil (depends on fertilizers) and India won't sanction Russia and could economically ensure the survival of the country.



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

Ryuu96 said:

Good. They need to be part of NATO ASAP. Same with Sweden.



Baltic Sea fleet of Russia will be pretty useless If Sweden with Gotland and Finland will be a part of NATO. Surrounded by countries protecting each other ?



Still "funny" how Russia complains about countries joining NATO and even tried to blackmail them if they join while they have their own military alliance with CSTO.



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Ryuu96 said:

A walkback from their earlier statements, but this is actually the first reasonable thing he has said in a long while. There's no trusting him though.

I can agree deploying military infrastructure could be provocative and even unnecessary, we have a capable and Nato-compatible defence force already.




Compared to last week.
+2050 Troops
+1 Planes
+83 Tanks
+7 Helicopters
+210 Personnel carriers (APV)
+64 Artillery
+1 Boats/cutters
+10 MLRS
+2 Anti-aircraft
+50 UAV
+1 Special equipment
+131 Vehicles/fuel tanks (now combined)
+3 Cruise missiles


Key takeaways:
Except for the number of helicopters and troops the numbers are down, sometimes significantly so (UAV, plane, MLRS). This looks like Russia is trying to keep more and more of their equipment from harm's way at the expanse of their own troops.
Those slowdowns in assets losses by Russia also comes amid reports of crushing defeats in Kharkiv and Donetsk river crossing. IMO, Russia may try to engage in fewer battle but with more troops and insistence, so far with no appearant success.

Last edited by EpicRandy - on 16 May 2022

Ryuu96 said:

Time for the "Erdogan pretends to be against something so he can get something out of the West" routine.

I don't doubt that Turkey is more potent than Sweden / Finland's militarily but the thing is for how alike Sweden / Finland is to other Nato members vs Turkey I'll support kicking out Turkey to integrate both.

Anyway the process to join Nato is long so there's enough time for other member to resolve this petty powerplay by Turkey before a final review.

Last edited by EpicRandy - on 16 May 2022

More important than their militaries, the addition of Sweden and Finland's advanced economies to NATO would be invaluable. As history has shown, economic and military might are inextricably linked.

Also, "not so unconditional" is I think Please-don't-kill-me-Putin code for "if we continue like this, we won't be China's friend. We'll be China's bitch."

I mean seriously, what rational human being can see this as anything resembling an friendship between equals.



Nuvendil said:

More important than their militaries, the addition of Sweden and Finland's advanced economies to NATO would be invaluable. As history has shown, economic and military might are inextricably linked.

Also, "not so unconditional" is I think Please-don't-kill-me-Putin code for "if we continue like this, we won't be China's friend. We'll be China's bitch."

I mean seriously, what rational human being can see this as anything resembling an friendship between equals.

Spoiler!
You already are China's bitch, Vlad.  Xi is your daddy.