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Forums - Politics Discussion - Russia and Ukraine flashpoint

So, South Korean intelligence says North Korea will send 12k soldiers to Ukraine and I guess this won't be the end. They have the fifth biggest army in the world with over a million people and they just won't care to throw hundred thousands into Ukraine if Russia will give them enough in exchange. And even with losing hundred thousands in Ukraine, North Korea would still get stronger. They would learn from the war and they will get a technological jump with what Russia will provide them.

That's just sickening and all of that because the West just watches. This whole shitshow could have ended already but no, let's watch how it will get worse and worse. What's next? Iran sending their troops to Ukraine to get everything they need to push their military?

And China is like "ohh, if even North Korea can fight against an European country, nobody will do anything to help Taiwan and if Trump wins even better!"



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crissindahouse said:

So, South Korean intelligence says North Korea will send 12k soldiers to Ukraine and I guess this won't be the end. They have the fifth biggest army in the world with over a million people and they just won't care to throw hundred thousands into Ukraine if Russia will give them enough in exchange. And even with losing hundred thousands in Ukraine, North Korea would still get stronger. They would learn from the war and they will get a technological jump with what Russia will provide them.

That's just sickening and all of that because the West just watches. This whole shitshow could have ended already but no, let's watch how it will get worse and worse. What's next? Iran sending their troops to Ukraine to get everything they need to push their military?

And China is like "ohh, if even North Korea can fight against an European country, nobody will do anything to help Taiwan and if Trump wins even better!"

Someone mentioned a good point that a lot of North Korean soldiers have never seen war before, but that also means that North Korea can use this as a learning experience, of course lots will die, but North Korea has plenty of bodies to throw and those who survive will pass their experience and knowledge onto other North Korean troops. It's not like North Korea is going to throw all their army into Ukraine but just enough may benefit them and whatever Russia gives them in exchange.

And like we can criticise North Korea's troops but Ukraine is factually not a technologically advanced army, sure, North Korea lobbing their troops at a country like America would end up with tens of thousands of North Korean soldiers turned into fertiliser but that's because America has a massively powerful air-force, along with very advanced ground weaponry. If Ukraine had air superiority then throwing thousands of North Koreans into the meat grinder would be no issue for them, but they don't.

Ukraine is already at a manpower disadvantage versus Russia alone, there's is nothing beneficial to Ukraine with North Korea now adding thousands of their own troops, Russia still has millions of manpower to pluck from, as does North Korea, this is why Ukraine must rely on equipment superiority and tactical superiority, they cannot win a war of attrition, so Ukraine needs a huge amount of advanced weaponry, vehicles, etc, and no stupid rules which restrict their tactical abilities.

We can laugh at Russia's idiotic battle strategy but Russia isn't fighting a super advanced NATO country...That's no disrespect to Ukraine but they're having to fight a war very differently to how America, UK, France, etc, would fight a war today. They do not have enough equipment to fully equip their brigades, they do not have an artillery advantage, they do not have an airpower advantage, so that allows events we see where Russia throws thousands of soldiers to their deaths but they still advance because it is simply overwhelming to Ukrainians dug out in trenches.

If Russia pulled these tactics on America, they'd have aircraft flying overhead and bombing the living shit out of all Russian troops, they'd be strolling in with literally thousands of IFVs, MBTs, etc To absolutely steamroll over Russian troops. Ukraine does not have this capability so a lot of their battles are simply soldiers vs soldiers.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 18 October 2024

I don't think Iran would send soldiers though because their citizens hate the regime and I don't believe it would take much to topple Iran into a full blown civil war, they don't have the same stranglehold on their citizens like North Korea does, likewise with Belarus. Having said that, if Iran did send troops to Ukraine and Belarus invaded Ukraine, not like NATO would do a thing about it.





Ryuu96 said:

And I hate to say it but I'm about 99% sure that Ukraine won't be joining NATO for a minimum of 10 years because there's too many cowards in the West. How long does Ukraine have to wait for the West to grow some balls? Sadly, a pessimistic side of me thinks that Ukraine may not even join NATO in my lifetime, NATO can talk shit about Ukraine "will join NATO" all they like, when Ukraine has already been waiting for 16 years.

All it takes is one country to veto, if it's not Orban it will be Scholz, if it's not Scholz it'll be Fico, if it's not Fico it will be Harris (or Trump). France and Germany are trending rightward towards parties that love Russia, as will UK in about 4-5 years from now if Labour doesn't pull off a miracle. You may say that Orban, Scholz, Biden/Harris/Trump, Fico will be gone soon, but it's almost equally as likely that someone replaces them with their exact same stances.

For Ukraine to join NATO the war is going to have to finish (will be years), then, if Ukraine has reclaimed its territory, great, but if Ukraine has lost territory then to join NATO they'd have to officially surrender it so that Ukraine isn't currently in conflict, then they'd probably need a period of peace, then we'd need a number of politicians with completely different mindsets to takeover in the West and if Russia is still lobbing missiles across the border at Ukraine or still do minor border raids then they sure as shit aren't joining NATO.

Which is why Ukraine joining was never the issue, because Ukraine was nowhere near joining NATO because as long as Russia had Crimea and sent cause a little regional conflict in the Donbas, NATO was never going to allow Ukraine in. Literally all Russia needs to do is lob a missile across the border at Ukraine every month or so and NATO wouldn't go anywhere near letting Ukraine in. It was always that simple to scare off the likes of America/Germany.

But I've refrained from saying this because it's one of Ukraine's aspirations and I want to support them but I don't believe it's happening within the next 10 years at a minimum, Ukraine probably thinks it's not happening at least for a few years though. So they're not saying "PUT US IN NATO TOMORROW" but at least give them assurances they will be in NATO rather than vague, useless words that they've said for the past 16 years. If they can't have those assurances then they'd have to find ways where UKRAINE can assurance its own defence, one of those ways is sadly, nukes. Something Trump pretends to care about, so Zelenskyy is playing to that.

I think that the horrors of this war and the cynicism it produces are getting to you, Ryu.  It may not be great, but things probably aren't going to be that bad either.  I'm thinking that things will be more of the middle of the road and that Ukraine will probably have Nato membership within 6 years.  

NATO nations will want to expand the organization, especially since it would be a high-value nation that won't betray them (somewhat) like say Hungary has been doing.  Ukraine will be loyal to the group.   Again, they want to expand the nation, especially to nations vulnerable to russia.  Ukraine would be the most obvious example of that.  

And these considerations of a nuke program by ukraine is possibly meant to bring about this decision sooner.  After the war, Ukraine will have to rebuild for a while and that will be very costly.  I can see them getting nukes again after 10 years or so, but it won't be as quick as they want. 

Don't worry, this war will be over next year and Ukraine will become a good place to live again.  

Last edited by shavenferret - on 18 October 2024

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North Korea literally invading a European country, what a timeline we live in.

Meanwhile America + Western Europe are asleep at the wheel.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 18 October 2024

Ukrainian Soldier.



Here's an idea, how about you do something about it?

Sick of countries saying their "concern" and barely lifting a finger.



13 Honest Facts About the War in Ukraine - Valerii Zaluzhnyi

1. So, the first fact of reality, I think you will agree with me, is the existence of the definition of the “collective West”. It really exists, and we consider it a group of developed Western countries with highly developed economies and democracies and their own security system. Such as NATO.

2. There are a number of authoritarian countries in the world with a high concentration of power in one hand. These countries lack democracy. Their economies are based on mineral resources or planned regulation, and are designed to serve the interests of the ruling leader or a party or movement.

3. There are countries in the world that, as a result of historical events and the aspirations of their people, managed to break away from authoritarian empires and regimes. Some of them have joined the collective West. Some, mainly due to the resistance of authoritarian empires, continue their struggle to join the civilized world, while still facing the danger of losing their independence. Some, such as Georgia and Belarus, have already lost their formal independence. A country like Ukraine, due to fierce resistance from Russia and its own indecision, found itself in a war for its independence from an authoritarian empire.

4. This is a very important statement for understanding the war in Ukraine. Unlike Belarus and Georgia, which lost their independence almost bloodlessly, Ukraine has been fighting for its independence for 10 years. The full-scale war has been going on for almost three years. More than 30 thousand people have already been killed. Hundreds of thousands have been wounded, but we continue to fight. This fact is perhaps the main proof that we, Ukrainians, want to live in the civilized Western world. And despite all the hardships, we have the right to our own future. Our enemy, ignoring our own desire, denies our history and culture, and is trying to destroy us as a nation. This is confirmed not only by events from the history of the last century. Such as the Holodomor, for example, the more recent events in Bucha and Gostomel, and events in the occupied territories. It is this fact that makes any peaceful coexistence impossible in the future and, accordingly, cannot consider any options for stopping the war based on any intentions of mutual security.

5. The reason for what is happening in Ukraine today is the natural consequences of the unwillingness of the collective West to influence the global security system. It was by taking advantage of the weakness of the West and the United States itself that Russia began expanding its “security space” in 2008. Later, in 2014, under the silence of the same collective West, Russia launched a war against Ukraine, which eventually became the bloodiest war of the 21st century in the center of Europe.

6. Even today, to keep the West afraid, Putin talks about red lines and nuclear weapons, and Western politicians, held hostage by their voters, are increasingly praying for the need to avoid escalation. Again, this is just a fact of life. But whether this war will be limited to Putin's appetites, to Ukraine alone, is something that Western politicians should answer. To their voters.

7. The collective West did not believe in Ukraine. Therefore, the Western press, fearing Putin, gave Ukraine first three hours, then three days. Then, having come to Ukraine's aid, the West, fearing either a nuclear war or escalation, did not provide Ukraine with the necessary amount of weapons, so we were unable to achieve any significant success in defeating Russia in the 23rd year and entered a state of protracted war, from which it seems impossible to get out of today. I will not dwell on this. I hope that you have been able to read my articles. By the way, I wrote them for you. Because it was then that we lost the opportunity to end the war on our own. And here's why.

8. This fact of reality already applies to all of us in this room. It already concerns each of you. Please tell me, is it a secret today that China, North Korea, and Iran are united around Russia? Does anyone think that they are united against Ukraine? If so, let me be the first to doubt it. Most of these countries do not even know where Ukraine is. And if you look closely at an organization like the BRICS, and especially at its prospects, it will expand. And what about the collective West? Is it still afraid of escalation?

9. An important fact of reality. There is a war. Whether you want it or not. Whether your arms manufacturers with contracts in hand want it or not, unfortunately, war has changed. There will be no more war like the one of 1953. It ended in the summer of '23 in Ukraine. At the moment when robots came to the battlefield, and the Western press and NATO generals laughed at me. In 2024, technology came into the battle. They were brought by artificial intelligence. No one laughs at me anymore. Even here in Britain, the national security strategy is already being revised. NATO is silent. What about global security then? Does it still rely on fighter jets, aircraft carriers, and super-expensive missiles? I'm going to upset you a little bit. No. Unfortunately, no. But I'm not stopping there. I hope you have read what I have published for you.

10. We, the Ukrainians who have been fighting for our freedom for 10 years, see victory very simply. We need to get three basic feelings.

11. A sense of our own security. We need to be sure that no one will attack Ukraine for at least 100 years. We want to have a guarantee of our own security for ourselves and our children. This can be done in the fastest and easiest way. Ukraine needs to join NATO .Or turn Ukraine into NATO. Like Israel, for example. Yes, there is no alternative to NATO today. The military capabilities of NATO are a controversial issue. But there is no alternative today.

12. We need to get a sense of unlimited development opportunities. Anyone in Ukraine should have unlimited opportunities. And this is the restoration of post-war Ukraine. This is what is being discussed in the West. But is recovery possible without security? Is an investor willing to invest in a country where there may be another war tomorrow? I'm going to disappoint you here. No. There are no long-term prospects without security a priori.

13. Every Ukrainian should feel that they are in their own home. That he is at home. Where he was born and raised, where his parents are buried and where his children live. In peace and tranquillity.

13 честных фактов о войне в Украине | Украинская правда