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Forums - Politics Discussion - Russia and Ukraine flashpoint

RolStoppable said:
crissindahouse said:

Would really like to get a statement from guys like Biden, Scholz and so on how they think Ukraine can win if they aren't allowed to destroy Russia's most valuable equipment.

I mean, if you say you are against using missiles against targets in Russia and you also say you want Ukraine to win this war you have to have an explanation how this can work, right? Because otherwise Russia will just shoot rockets on Ukraine for the next 100 years. Russia may not take a lot of new territory but why should they ever stop shooting at Ukraine from Russian ground if they have to fear exactly 0.

Did Biden or Scholz ever say that they want Ukraine to win this war? I don't think they did.

They've always framed it as "Russia must not win this war" and that's exactly the strategy they are following. Give Ukraine enough to keep them in the game, but don't give them enough to win.

Yeah true, Scholz always just said Russia can't win but he never said Ukraine has to win. At least Baerbock said that



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Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 12 July 2024

It already feels like we've moved on from Russia bombing a children's hospital.

No response, weak condemnation, it's Syria all over again.



July 12 (Reuters) - Berlin is taking reports of a plot to assassinate the chief executive of arms manufacturer Rheinmetall (RHMG.DE), very seriously and will not be cowed by Russian intimidation, the German government said on Friday.

A source familiar with the situation confirmed reporting by CNN and others that U.S. intelligence officials warned the German authorities this year that Russia was plotting to assassinate Armin Papperger, the head of Europe’s biggest weapons producer, which has produced artillery shells and military vehicles for Ukraine.

A U.S. official, without confirming the report, said there has been an increased Russian efforts to conduct subversive or sabotage activities throughout Europe in the last five or six months.

These activities seemed to be targeting buildings, facilities, companies, and people involved in the supply of weapons to Ukraine, the official said.

"We will not allow ourselves to be intimidated by Russia and will continue to do everything we can to prevent Russian threats in Germany," Germany's Interior Minister Nancy Faeser said.

One of the world's biggest producers of artillery and tank shells, Rheinmetall has not directly confirmed the reports but said "necessary measures are always taken" for security, in regular consultation with security authorities.

Germany says it won't be cowed by Russia after reported plot to kill Rheinmetall CEO | Reuters

Won't be cowed, but we won't do anything about it.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 12 July 2024

WASHINGTON, July 11 (Reuters) - France, Germany, Italy and Poland on Thursday kicked off an initiative to develop ground-launched cruise missiles with a range beyond 500 kilometres to fill a gap in European arsenals that they say has been exposed by Russia's war in Ukraine.

France, Germany, Italy, Poland agree to jointly develop long-range cruise missiles | Reuters

Ground launched cruise missile beyond 500km is good.

Hopefully Germany has no say on the export rights though, otherwise nobody will ever use them.



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Enjoy this photo, a showing of unity, before Trump destroys it all.



Today, I addressed the Governors Association in Utah and emphasized the critical need for global unity against aggression. There are different wars in the world, but Russia’s war against Ukraine is one of the most transparent battles between good and evil of our time.

Ukraine has done nothing wrong before God and people. All the pain our country suffers is due to Russia’s criminal actions, unprovoked and unjust aggression. It’s so valuable that many nations have united to help us preserve our freedom and the understanding that evil must lose.

What else would our world rely on if evil did not lose and if good people did not unite in battles against what threatens any life and any values? I have said many times that we don’t ask the US and other partners to fight for us.

We don’t ask for their boots on the ground. The only thing we ask for is sufficient support – air defense systems for our cities, weapons for our men and women on the front line, support in protecting normal life and rebuilding.

This is all we need to withstand and drive Russia from our land to send strong signal to other potential aggressors. And we truly receive such support. I am grateful for this. We receive it from dozens of countries – and America’s leadership is indeed felt.

Many people, communities, and companies globally are helping us. As it’s said, “The one who plants and the one who waters have one purpose, and each will be rewarded according to their labor.”

Today, I thank the state of Utah, other states, all Americans, and communities – all those who do not want and will not allow evil to prevail.

Recently, a Russian missile struck Okhmatdyt, one of Europe’s best children’s hospitals. This couldn’t have been a coincidence. Children battling severe illnesses were left amidst ruins. We’re working to restore the hospital and ensure children receive necessary treatments – cancer does not wait for the Russians to stop bombing.

Russia has destroyed countless civilian structures: 160,000 homes, 3,000 schools and universities, 750 medical facilities, and nearly 200 churches. All of this presents us with a huge range of tasks, and many of them will be resolved within communities, very close to the ground.

We deeply appreciate friends from around the world visiting Ukraine, speak the truth about what they have witnessed, help rebuild all that is necessary for a normal life, and personally tell everyone who has not seen such a war that good must always triumph in war.

To ensure the victory of good, the voice of each governor and community leader is crucial. I invite everyone to visit Ukraine, see our struggle. I am proud of Ukrainians and what they are achieving. Together we can achieve much more for all of us – for our countries and communities. I invite you to build people-to-people connections that will last forever.

Utah’s contribution to rebuilding Ukraine has already helped thousands. This aid can reach millions and support the cause of good, which rewards everyone – regardless of where they live. We all share the same values and don’t want war to disrupt life anywhere.



Kills me inside when Ukraine says "we don’t ask the US and other partners to fight for us. We don’t ask for their boots on the ground. The only thing we ask for is sufficient support" and it feels like Ukraine doesn't even get that.



RolStoppable said:

Did Biden or Scholz ever say that they want Ukraine to win this war? I don't think they did.

They've always framed it as "Russia must not win this war" and that's exactly the strategy they are following. Give Ukraine enough to keep them in the game, but don't give them enough to win.

What I think happens is this:

At the end of the Cold War, European nations reduced their military industry and military stores to peacetime. The USA also did so, although it retained part of its old industry and warehouses. Now it's time to expand it, but that takes time and you have to endure in the meantime.

Expelling Russia from Ukraine is not possible because we would have to empty our ammunition stores of all kinds. For example, just to recover Crimea, the USA and Europe would have to hand over more than half of their stock of precision rockets. And then we have nothing left to deter China and the war in that area begins.

Our plan for this year is to contain the Russians to wear them down and give in when the pressure becomes too great.

The Russians know that the European military industry grows without much effort on our part and that the Russian industry maintains production, but at the cost of skyrocketing costs and sinking quality. They know that it is not sustainable and that in a year (or two at most) they will be screwed. And they know that from now until winter it doesn't matter if Trump wins because there will be no need for more American aid because we will manufacture enough to support Ukraine. The Russian plan is to take down Ukraine this winter because they have no other choice. Since their plan can work (there are only a handful of Ukrainian units capable of a coherent defense and they focus all their attacks on them), they are already telling Russia that if it succeeds then there will be a European force in Ukraine.



Ryuu96 said:

Kills me inside when Ukraine says "we don’t ask the US and other partners to fight for us. We don’t ask for their boots on the ground. The only thing we ask for is sufficient support" and it feels like Ukraine doesn't even get that.

In an interview with my country's former chief of defense staff, he said that we were one step away from going to war with Russia because we Europeans are more concerned about the Russian threat than about China. But Ukraine held on. And the operation was ruled out.


The only thing Putin has done well was not winning the war. Because if he had won it, then he would have war with us.