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Forums - Politics Discussion - Russia and Ukraine flashpoint

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Ryuu96 said:
shavenferret said:

It's stupid but we are I the real world and we have to abide by all kinds of stupid rules. Ukraine is also expanding their drone production as a way around this. Things will get better. 

Drones won't be enough.

If Ukraine starts hitting civilian targets like Russia has, they will be blasted by the international community and will quickly lose support.  There are ways around all of these rules. One possibility is Ukraine actually purchasing these missles so that they can use them as seen fit to keep any responsibility off of the donating party.  



shavenferret said:
Ryuu96 said:

Drones won't be enough.

If Ukraine starts hitting civilian targets like Russia has, they will be blasted by the international community and will quickly lose support.  There are ways around all of these rules. One possibility is Ukraine actually purchasing these missles so that they can use them as seen fit to keep any responsibility off of the donating party.  

I doubt that Ukraine purchasing the missiles will get around the rules, there's no logic in saying things are different if I give you a weapon for free vs if you purchase the weapon, in both scenarios, the weapon is Ukraine's, it isn't a loan, it's a gift and any rules applied to a free gift would likely apply to a sale. Also, they'd still be fired from HIMARS launchers so Ukraine would have to purchase the HIMARS too.

I didn't mention about civilians either, nobody thinks Ukraine will start hitting civilians if they can fire into Russia...The troops are amassing on the border which Ukraine can't do anything about, drones won't be enough because they'd need to produce thousands of drones per month, they already use dozens for single attacks across Russia, there's a reason they use them on mostly things like oil facilities, because they aren't as heavily guarded. Drones are fine on secluded troops, low-defended oil fields and overloading AD systems to sneak a missile in but concentrated troop locations will be heavily defended with electronic warfare to knock drones out.

The reason they don't allow it is because the western world is terrified of Russia (still) despite the fact that Russia has already accused Ukraine of using western weapons on Russian soil, despite the fact that Russia has accused NATO of fighting in with Ukrainian troops, despite the fact that Russia has publicly claimed Crimea as part of Russia for the past 10 years and Ukraine has smashed it multiple times with ATACMS, Storm Shadow, etc.

But Belgorod is different, for some reason, Russia will get mad at us...

Fact is if this policy continues then Russia will just turn Sumy and Kharkhiv into rubble.



Today, Kharkiv was attacked several times. parks, resort, cemetery... everywhere you would expect to find civilians on Sunday. A pregnant woman was killed, among others.

I know I report attacks a lot, and for you, the outsiders, it blurs together, you get tired of me. But the truth is, these attacks are our constant reality. Russia brutally bombs us every single day.

Shouldn't we be able to effectively fight back? We need to lift restrictions on hitting military targets in Russia. We need an organized campaigns for this. Because it isn't about offensive, it's about defending ourselves.



Lets be clear, the only person this policy helps is Russia.

America is actively helping Russia with this policy and anyone else who enforces a similar policy.



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Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 20 May 2024





Ryuu96 said:
Cobretti2 said:

120 is a lot.

Australia has less than 20 F18 and like 60 F35s, to cover the whole country, which is 13 times bigger than Ukraine.

Yer we fucked if someone invades lol.

In the context of total supplies it's not that much, more than 4,450 F-16s have been delivered worldwide as of 2010. As of 2023, the USAF operates a total of 841 F-16s of different variants. European allies likely have hundreds in total. I think your navy is more important than your air force considering your natural barrier, Lol. But Australia has AUKUS so nobody will threaten you. Honestly no single country could nowadays take on a nuclear power alone, that's why we have NATO and security partnerships.

So the exact numbers of F-16s each nation has are public.  It's actually not that common a fighter in Europe, because it has considerable overlap with multiple European designs.  The only large scale operator is Greece.  But they're unlikely to give up their F-16s when Turkey is right next door with hundreds of their own.  

Most of the F-16s are operated by the USA, which is quite understandable given the scale of its security obligations and its geographic position.  The rest are mostly found in the Middle East (Israel, Egypt, Turkey) and East Asia (South Korea, Taiwan,