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Forums - Politics Discussion - Russia and Ukraine flashpoint

Bofferbrauer2 said:
BFR said:

Did Putin encourage Iran to attack Israel tonight........????

Of course, as it would divert attention away from Ukraine and to the middle east instead - and with it, lessen potential support for Ukraine.

And it will backfire on Russia. Here in the USA, we don't tolerate attacks on ourselves or on our allies, especially since Sept. 11

So, thank you Iran and Russia for helping the USA pass a new aid package to Ukraine next week. :)



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The stupid thing with the drone attack is America got involved and shot them down. Why not aid Ukraine the same way, after all Russia using Iranian drones. If anything this should be the trigger to send 10 or so AD systems )wee know they got plenty) to Ukraine and let them defend themselves if they don't wat to do the firing.



 

 

Looks like the rest of the world is more worried lately, I think that if we can help ukraine get over the hump, that it will be easier before we easier eventually.





99% interception rate



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Cobretti2 said:

The stupid thing with the drone attack is America got involved and shot them down. Why not aid Ukraine the same way, after all Russia using Iranian drones. If anything this should be the trigger to send 10 or so AD systems )wee know they got plenty) to Ukraine and let them defend themselves if they don't wat to do the firing.

Fucking ridiculous is what it is. 



BFR said:

Did Putin encourage Iran to attack Israel tonight........????

Probably not directly but Russia's likely helping Iran improve their military either way and Russia would be thrilled if Iran/Israel went to war because it would distract America away from Ukraine permanently but I do not believe Iran is insane enough to want an actual war with Israel, they've despised each other for centuries but Iran knows it would end badly for them.

I hate both Israel's government and Iran's government, I think they're both as bad as each other but Iran's attack was because Israel recklessly bombed an Iranian consulate in Syria which is a big no no for most countries, so this was Iran's response to that. During the attack, Iran put outs statements which can basically be summed up as "hey this was our response to your attack! lets end this now!"

So Biden NEEDS to keep Netanyahu on a leash, the last thing we need right now is Israel and Iran going to war, Israel needs to take this on the chin, it was a tit for tat, go bomb some terrorist Houthi's or something, don't escalate with Iran directly though. Iran's attack was very telegraphed, the drones took 5 hours to reach Israel, I do believe Iran's move was just a face saving attack.

Iran is claiming victory, Israel is claiming victory too due to interception rate, as far as I can see, barely anything made it through, I was worried that civilians would be killed but I've not seen any reports of that yet, apparently the drones and missiles were only targeted at military installations. Reportedly Biden has told Netanyahu to take this as a win and move on, he has also reportedly told Netanyahu that America won't back him in an offensive on Iran so this should hopefully be the end of it.

Biden told Netanyahu US will not participate in offensive operations against Iran, US official says

Biden tells Netanyahu tonight was a win, nothing of "value" hit in Israel, US official says

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 14 April 2024

Bofferbrauer2 said:
Ryuu96 said:

In fairness people just group them in with western Europe, we as a collective are failing Ukraine by large but it is correct to point out that Spain and Italy in particular are f*cking useless, their contribution to Ukraine is a joke and they don't even meet the 2% spending for NATO and Italy from what I've heard is less sympathetic towards Ukraine.

Sorry, but neither Italy or Spain should get a say in who becomes the next head of NATO.

France at least has somewhat of an excuse, not one I am willing to give them a total pass with but France is a bit like the America of Europe, Lol. Their military is stretched across multiple countries, in particular the African region which Russia is messing with lately, they could fuck up France's interests in Africa and with Venezuela threatening Guyana which France would probably protect.

But France could still do a lot more, they're just doing more than Italy/Spain on the account of their public comments, trying to move the stupid "line" while Italy and Spain stay silent, SCALP has also been an amazing contribution to Ukraine but they're just simply lacking in overall support, they're the most powerful military in Europe, they can do a lot more.

In Italy Meloni is a bit in a bind. She's very pro-Ukraine, but most of her coalition partners are more in line with Orban, especially Salvini (though he denies it now). As such, there ain't much she can do but admonish coalition members who speak against Ukraine or in favor of Russia or Putin, as actual support she wouldn't get past her coalition members. Otherwise Italy could send their Puma APC (they are getting phased out, though curiously no direct successor is planned), and some of their Skyguard Aspide systems, as most are in storage anyway (their successor is supposed to begin being delivered this year). And considering how much Italy is buying or planning to buy (100+ tanks, 1000+ IFV, 500+ MRAPs, different air defense systems and 21 HIMARS) they certainly could get rid of some old equipment otherwise.

Spain doesn't have tis problem and could send quite a bit more stuff. Apart from over 100 Leopard 2A4 (They got the 2A6-based Leopard 2E anyway) and lots of M113 (over 500, still their main APC), they got tons of light utility and infantry mobility vehicles (~4000). Spain also has quite a few Air defense systems: 3 Patriot batteries, 13 Skyguard Aspide systems, 8 NASAMS-2 (4 batteries) and 168 Mistral MANPADS, plus over 90 Oerlikon GDF twin AA cannons.

So in short, Spain has quite a lot they could send

Surely Italy could just sell the equipment to a European country on the basis that the European country then sends it to Ukraine, it doesn't have to explicitly state that in the deal but it could be more like a "wink wink, nudge nudge" Lol. These pro-Putin politicians often shut up as soon as money gets involved. Obviously this wouldn't show up in Italy's support of Ukraine so that still wouldn't change but we'd know what is going on. Could also send them to another country so that country can then send Ukraine its own equipment and uses Italy's as the replacement.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 14 April 2024

Ryuu96 said:
BFR said:

Did Putin encourage Iran to attack Israel tonight........????

Probably not directly but Russia's likely helping Iran improve their military either way and Russia would be thrilled if Iran/Israel went to war because it would distract America away from Ukraine permanently but I do not believe Iran is insane enough to want an actual war with Israel, they've despised each other for centuries but Iran knows it would end badly for them.

I hate both Israel's government and Iran's government, I think they're both as bad as each other but Iran's attack was because Israel recklessly bombed an Iranian consulate in Syria which is a big no no for most countries, so this was Iran's response to that. During the attack, Iran put outs statements which can basically be summed up as "hey this was our response to your attack! lets end this now!"

So Biden NEEDS to keep Netanyahu on a leash, the last thing we need right now is Israel and Iran going to war, Israel needs to take this on the chin, it was a tit for tat, go bomb some terrorist Houthi's or something, don't escalate with Iran directly though. Iran's attack was very telegraphed, the drones took 5 hours to reach Israel, I do believe Iran's move was just a face saving attack.

Iran is claiming victory, Israel is claiming victory too due to interception rate, as far as I can see, barely anything made it through, I was worried that civilians would be killed but I've not seen any reports of that yet, apparently the drones and missiles were only targeted at military installations. Reportedly Biden has told Netanyahu to take this as a win and move on, he has also reportedly told Netanyahu that America won't back him in an offensive on Iran so this should hopefully be the end of it.

Biden told Netanyahu US will not participate in offensive operations against Iran, US official says

Biden tells Netanyahu tonight was a win, nothing of "value" hit in Israel, US official says

To be fair I reckon most of Iranian's (with a brain), would like to see their Government toppled. I have Iranian friends in Australia and all they ever talk about is the fall of their Government an hope it happens. This has been going on for as long as I known them so not a new thing because of Israel. They want to see them go back to the progressive country it was before it turned extremist again.



 

 

Cobretti2 said:

The stupid thing with the drone attack is America got involved and shot them down. Why not aid Ukraine the same way, after all Russia using Iranian drones. If anything this should be the trigger to send 10 or so AD systems )wee know they got plenty) to Ukraine and let them defend themselves if they don't wat to do the firing.

Reportedly UK and France were involved too.

It comes down to nukes, Russia has nukes and Iran doesn't and so the West is terrified about every single damn move, constantly terrified about this made up line they've invented, constantly terrified that Russia will lob a nuke at them, all Russia needs to do is mention "nuke" and we shit our pants but every sensible person knows that Russia isn't going to fire a nuke unless we're marching on Moscow.

You know what's even more sad? Jordan shot down Iranian drones over its airspace because Iran violated its airspace, Jordan who tries to be neutral and broker peace between Israel and Gaza but Jordan knows it has to defend its airspace from someone violating it. Jordan isn't protected like Israel is but Jordan knows it must protect its skies.

Jordan has more balls than the whole of NATO who let Russia repeatedly violate their airspace with drones and missiles.