Russia and Ukraine flashpoint

[Ryuu96]

Bofferbrauer2 said:

Ryuu96 said:

In fairness people just group them in with western Europe, we as a collective are failing Ukraine by large but it is correct to point out that Spain and Italy in particular are f*cking useless, their contribution to Ukraine is a joke and they don't even meet the 2% spending for NATO and Italy from what I've heard is less sympathetic towards Ukraine.

Sorry, but neither Italy or Spain should get a say in who becomes the next head of NATO.

France at least has somewhat of an excuse, not one I am willing to give them a total pass with but France is a bit like the America of Europe, Lol. Their military is stretched across multiple countries, in particular the African region which Russia is messing with lately, they could fuck up France's interests in Africa and with Venezuela threatening Guyana which France would probably protect.

But France could still do a lot more, they're just doing more than Italy/Spain on the account of their public comments, trying to move the stupid "line" while Italy and Spain stay silent, SCALP has also been an amazing contribution to Ukraine but they're just simply lacking in overall support, they're the most powerful military in Europe, they can do a lot more.

In Italy Meloni is a bit in a bind. She's very pro-Ukraine, but most of her coalition partners are more in line with Orban, especially Salvini (though he denies it now). As such, there ain't much she can do but admonish coalition members who speak against Ukraine or in favor of Russia or Putin, as actual support she wouldn't get past her coalition members. Otherwise Italy could send their Puma APC (they are getting phased out, though curiously no direct successor is planned), and some of their Skyguard Aspide systems, as most are in storage anyway (their successor is supposed to begin being delivered this year). And considering how much Italy is buying or planning to buy (100+ tanks, 1000+ IFV, 500+ MRAPs, different air defense systems and 21 HIMARS) they certainly could get rid of some old equipment otherwise.

Spain doesn't have tis problem and could send quite a bit more stuff. Apart from over 100 Leopard 2A4 (They got the 2A6-based Leopard 2E anyway) and lots of M113 (over 500, still their main APC), they got tons of light utility and infantry mobility vehicles (~4000). Spain also has quite a few Air defense systems: 3 Patriot batteries, 13 Skyguard Aspide systems, 8 NASAMS-2 (4 batteries) and 168 Mistral MANPADS, plus over 90 Oerlikon GDF twin AA cannons.

So in short, Spain has quite a lot they could send

Surely Italy could just sell the equipment to a European country on the basis that the European country then sends it to Ukraine, it doesn't have to explicitly state that in the deal but it could be more like a "wink wink, nudge nudge" Lol. These pro-Putin politicians often shut up as soon as money gets involved. Obviously this wouldn't show up in Italy's support of Ukraine so that still wouldn't change but we'd know what is going on. Could also send them to another country so that country can then send Ukraine its own equipment and uses Italy's as the replacement.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 14 April 2024