By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Politics Discussion - Russia and Ukraine flashpoint

"If Ukraine wanted to escalate its pressure on Russian oil refining revenue, they would target the key product export terminal infrastructure at the ports of Primorsk or Novorossiysk," said Mark Williams, research director for short-term oils at consultant Wood Mackenzie Ltd. "However, that would further pressure the relationship with its Western allies as the impact on global oil and refined product prices would be substantial."

For now, Ukraine's drone campaign is focused solely on having an economic impact within Russia — hampering the country's ability to process crude oil into fuel and wearing down its air defenses.

"It's basically a new form of attrition warfare where these systems get deployed in massive volumes against strategic sites," said Serra-Martins of Terminal Autonomy, a US company with production facilities in Ukraine that was founded last year. The drones are designed to be low-cost and single-use, meaning missiles from Russian air defense systems can cost up to 40 times more than the aircraft they're targeting.

The attacks also have a psychological goal, said another drone manufacturer who spoke on condition of anonymity. Moscow's propaganda tries to make its citizens forget the nation is at war, but long lines at fuel stations would bring the reality of conflict to their daily lives, the person said.

While Russian governors are often the first to comment on drone attacks at refineries in their official Telegram accounts, the authorities have made a concerted effort to mute any impact on the wider population.

Several regions have asked people not to film drone attacks or take pictures of the damage they cause. The government of the Leningrad region went as far as banning such videos and pictures, although the punishment for violating the order has yet to be determined.

"Russia is a gas station with an army, and we intend on destroying that gas station," Francisco Serra-Martins, co-founder and chief executive officer of drone manufacturer Terminal Autonomy, said in an interview. "We are going to focus on where it hits the hardest, and that's financial resources."

Ukraine’s Drones Threaten Russian Oil Industry With Refinery Strikes - Bloomberg



Around the Network

Discharge Petition gained an extra 8 signatures, all Democrats.

Office of the Clerk, U.S. House of Representatives - Discharge Petition Details - 9

  • 185/218 Required - 33 Signatures Left.
  • 28 Democrats Haven't Signed.
  • Not a Single Republican Has Signed.

It isn't reaching the threshold, Imo, I think we'll likely get to around 190-200 all Democrats but I can't see a single Republican growing a spine to sign it and there's already a few Democrats confirmed to not be signing it, which means we need more Republicans to flip but to date we don't even have one who isn't a coward.



Office of the Clerk, U.S. House of Representatives - Discharge Petition Details - 9

Three extra votes today, now at 188.

Honestly I'm just using it to keep track of who is voting, seems like Republicans are in on Johnson's "Ukraine loan" bill. I know how it will go, Trump will run to whatever shitty social media site he is on nowadays to scream about how he got Ukraine money turned into a loan, how Biden was personally giving Zelensky billions in cash with no accountability and now Zelenskyy has to pay America back thanks to Trump.

Going to be hilarious if Biden just forgives the loan.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 21 March 2024





Around the Network

China is under unprecedented US, EU pressure over Russian payments, says Kremlin | Reuters



Lol.



Ryuu96 said:

Office of the Clerk, U.S. House of Representatives - Discharge Petition Details - 9

Three extra votes today, now at 188.

Honestly I'm just using it to keep track of who is voting, seems like Republicans are in on Johnson's "Ukraine loan" bill. I know how it will go, Trump will run to whatever shitty social media site he is on nowadays to scream about how he got Ukraine money turned into a loan, how Biden was personally giving Zelensky billions in cash with no accountability and now Zelenskyy has to pay America back thanks to Trump.

Going to be hilarious if Biden just forgives the loan.

Edit to this, I didn't even pay attention that Ken Buck signed it. So we officially have our 1st Republican, but why did he sign it?

Because he is retiring tomorrow

Republicans only grow a spine when they know their career is over, nevertheless, immediately after signing it, the psychopaths like Boebert are ranting about him on Twitter, Lol. Ken Buck's name will remain on it until a successor is elected but some dude who is retiring isn't going to cause a wave of Republicans to grow a spine anyway.



Shut The Fuck Up. Seriously. Shut The Fuck Up.

You aren't even able to give Ukraine aid anymore and you have the nerve to tell them what to do? First the West doesn't want to give Ukraine long-range weapons, then they finally give them (some) but demand they don't be used on Russian territory, so Ukraine develops their own and still gets told how to use their own damn weapons by the West.

I'm sick to death of western politicians, a bunch of fucking cowards, if America and others aren't putting a million restrictions on Ukraine, they're being absolute cowards about "redlines" and sending Ukraine certain weapons. Some western politicians should fuck off into a bear infested forest and try to fight a bear with their bare hands, drag their mangled body back and tell us how it went, that's what they're demanding of Ukraine.

How many restrictions is that now?

They can't use certain weapons on or inside of Russia, the West cries when Ukraine assassinates Russians involved in the war, Ukraine isn't allowed certain weapons still (Taurus) because there's a lack of trust, the West takes months to debate on delivering certain weapons because they're afraid of escalations, not allowed to hit Kerch Bridge with western weapons, now they can't hit Russia's energy infrastructure.

Yes this is probably an election reason too but what the fuck should Ukraine do? Hold back like they've been told to for the past 2 years? In the hope that Biden will win the election? While not receiving any aid from America until then? And if Dems don't take back House they might not get that aid anyway. Absolutely ridiculous.

For the past two years, Russia has been fighting this like an actual war, whilst Ukraine has been told to fight like it's a boxing match, I don't think western politicians have the stomach for a war anymore, they don't understand what a fucking war is, Ukraine has been fighting with one arm tied behind its back for 2 fucking years now.

And there's western idiots who think NATO wants a war with Russia? Lmfao.

We are at this point because of the cowardice of the West, because from day one the West dragged their feet because of "scary escalation" and if Ukraine actually got what it needed from day one, things may be very different, but instead we spent months to debate about how angry Russia would be if we did this or that and people in the west have the nerve to criticise Ukraine for failing offensives when they half ass support.



Rant

Russia must lose and Russia losing is the best outcome for the stability of Europe, the consequences of Russia losing is it becomes a weakened state, a pariah country like North Korea only larger, too weakened to pose a threat to anyone afterwards for a while and ensuring the security of countries like Ukraine, Moldova and others in Europe, alongside putting off similar imperialist countries from doing the same. What would happen if Russia wins? Millions of Ukrainians dead, displaced and abused, that should be the only reason to stand up to an evil like Russia but I know that's not enough for people living cosy in their countries far away from the conflict lines and they need reasons which hurt them before they start acting.

So here it is, they'll be massive migration, millions of Ukrainians will have to flee into other European countries and have already done so but there's a bit of an assumption they'll return after the war is over. Immigration is a topic which always riles up Europeans and easy bait for far right politicians, they'll be screeching about how Ukrainians are taking our jobs, draining our resources, etc. Far right politicians will take advantage of this, they often also align with Putin's view of the world, they will be further campaigns on anti-immigration and Putin often uses migration as a tactic against Europe, firstly Russia destabilises a country and then indirectly sends millions of migrants into Europe to put pressure onto our countries.

We've seen this already in action with Fico (PM of Slovakia), a man who campaigned on anti-immigration against Ukrainian refugees, a far right twat who is like Orban when it comes to Putin, pro-Putin politicians will more easily get themselves elected meanwhile trust will breakdown amongst European countries, Czech Republic for example doesn't trust Fico so much so that they don't share Ukrainian data with Slovakia anymore and I suspect that applies to Orban as well, so we now have two NATO countries that nobody else trusts.

Moderate to left wing politicians will lose power, Ukrainian migrants could become the new easy target to hate, NATO and Europe will fracture as blame will be thrown around as to why Ukraine lost, I imagine the Baltics, Nordics and Central/Eastern European countries will point the blame at countries in Western Europe/America for not pulling their weight enough, for not listening to them, Poland may end up acquiring their own nuclear arsenal if they can no longer trust America or Western Europe anymore.

Moldova will be next to be slaughtered and we won't do a damn thing about it because of Transnistria, it will follow the exact same story as Ukraine, Russia causes trouble in a particular region of a country it wants with its little green men totally not Russian soldiers in secret, that region will then "independently" call on Russia for help, Russia will then begin an invasion to "protect" Russians. That country therefore can't join NATO because nobody would vote them in if there's a current active conflict with Russian backed forces, so when Moldova is inevitably destroyed next because it can't get NATO protection, that'll be another hundreds of thousands of migrants into Europe and dead Moldovans.

Belarus will be next, not via military means, Lukashenko is a puppet who would happily hand Belarus over and Belarusians won't be able to do a damn thing about it, Ukraine winning may actually inspire them to stand up once more to Lukashenko and overthrow that puppet regime whilst Russia is too weakened to prevent it, maybe even Ukraine could help them, the protests against Lukashenko had hundreds of thousands and only happened 4 years ago, once Belarus sells itself to Russia they'll be even more migrants into Europe.

Conflict will escalate between Armenia and Azerbaijan as Azerbaijan realises nobody will protect Armenia. China will see a route at taking Taiwan and a lack of conviction from the West to do the right thing. Russia has turned their country into full scale war mode, they aren't going to suddenly after taking Ukraine be like "yo, we friends now?" they won't be able to easily change back to being a "normal" country after entering war production, Russia only knows war right now and it will remain that way until its complete defeat on the battlefield.

Then Putin may set his sights on a Baltic country, he may believe that Russia already beat NATO in Ukraine. Would Putin think that we would defend Estonia? That we would actually send troops in to kill Russian soldiers? That we would put ourselves at risk for a tiny country like Lativa? When we're too fucking scared of redlines about sending Ukrainians equipment for Ukrainians to use, not us? But we'd all of a sudden be brave and protect a Baltic country if they were invaded because a small bit of black ink on some paper says "an attack on one NATO country is an attack on us all"

Actions speak louder than words and with the amount of redlines and fear about Ukraine when we aren't even shooting a single bullet at Russia, even I start to wonder if we would put boots in the ground to protect another country or if we'll instead just be like "Here! Have some ammo! Here's a few missiles too! But don't use em on Russia! Only use them on your own country! Good luck buddy, die to protect us" Russia is a modern day Nazi Germany, their appetite won't be quenched just with Ukraine, they already have the biggest fucking country in the world, all Russia is about now is war and they want to expand their empire.

I wish politicians would actually learn from history and put a stop to things now rather than wait until it's too late.