By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Politics Discussion - Russia and Ukraine flashpoint

Sounds like a defection, Lol. I'd think Ukraine would have blown it up if it wasn't.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 23 August 2023

Around the Network
Ryuu96 said:

America would have better reason than most though...Considering Wagner Group straight up attacked American soldiers before (and got slaughtered but that isn't the point).

Wagner Group should be considered a terrorist group by all in the West and treated accordingly. The same way we treat ISIS and Al-Qaeda.

Wagner Group is no longer affiliated with Russia, they should not be able to hide behind Russia any longer.

I know the UK is in the process as proscribing Wagner as a terrorist group. I believe the US already classifies them as such.

Last edited by SecondWar - on 23 August 2023

Recently, a Mi-8 helicopter of the Russian Armed Forces ended up in Ukraine as a result of a long-term special operation of the Main Intelligence Directorate of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

Ukrainian intelligence lured a pilot of a Mi-8 AMTSh to Ukraine. The helicopter crew made a flight between two air bases and transported parts for Su-27 and Su-30 fighter jets.

Along with the pilot on board were two crew members who did not know where the helicopter was actually flying. The Mі-8 landed in Kharkiv Oblast.

As a result of the special operation, two crew members were eliminated.

The pilot remained in Ukraine, and his family was taken there in advance. Now, the pilot and his family are in Ukraine.

The Mі-8 stayed in Ukraine, along with the fighter jets parts.

Ukraine's Defence Intelligence lured Russian Mi-8 helicopter into Ukraine | Ukrainska Pravda



drkohler said:

And this is why I wrote: DO.NOT.FEED.THE.TROLL.

One troll post and the thread is on the way to get derailed by endless "I'm a Christian you're not" ramblings.

People, get back to the subject of this thread.

And you are still wrong. The user in question has had never a good experience when he went on one of his drug-infused posting sprees. It was all just random chance.

On topic: A few days ago I read an interview with a German military expert who said that the USA and Germany's goal in this war is to provide Ukraine with enough equipment to attain a better position for eventual peace talks with Russia, but not enough equipment to beat Russia on the battlefield. That rang true. While it is a naive approach in the given situation, it is what the USA and Germany have been doing. What do they hope to gain by making Russia not lose outright, I wonder.

I think it's more that Biden and Scholz are very similar types of leaders, too afraid of getting something definitive done when it's acting against the current polling data despite it being the right thing. The kind of right thing where the majority will only realize in hindsight that it was the right thing all along.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV will outsell Super Smash Bros. Brawl. I was wrong.

RolStoppable said:
drkohler said:

And this is why I wrote: DO.NOT.FEED.THE.TROLL.

One troll post and the thread is on the way to get derailed by endless "I'm a Christian you're not" ramblings.

People, get back to the subject of this thread.

And you are still wrong. The user in question has had never a good experience when he went on one of his drug-infused posting sprees. It was all just random chance.

On topic: A few days ago I read an interview with a German military expert who said that the USA and Germany's goal in this war is to provide Ukraine with enough equipment to attain a better position for eventual peace talks with Russia, but not enough equipment to beat Russia on the battlefield. That rang true. While it is a naive approach in the given situation, it is what the USA and Germany have been doing. What do they hope to gain by making Russia not lose outright, I wonder.

I think it's more that Biden and Scholz are very similar types of leaders, too afraid of getting something definitive done when it's acting against the current polling data despite it being the right thing. The kind of right thing where the majority will only realize in hindsight that it was the right thing all along.

It's probably the same hold-up as when speaking of providing a long-range weapon. They don't want Ukraine to invade Russia in the end as it may escalate things drastically even though it would be more than justified and actually the sole way for Ukraine to win by the way of war.

Even if Ukraine liberate 100% of its territory, as long as Putin remains in power they'll continue their aggression, shelling and bombing Ukrainian cities with emphasis on civil infrastructure and crippling Ukraine's economy/export. The only way for Ukraine to win a decisive victory that forces Russia to stop its aggression is by having the Ukrainian Army in Moscow. The problem with this is it would force Russian allies to reconsider their position by either abandoning Russia or getting involved themselves. 

The USA certainly wants to avoid a redo of the Korean War situation where all seemingly went well up to the point they crossed over a line and China joined against them.

The only way to prevent a scenario like this unfortunately might be to keep the conflict within Ukraine's border. If this logic is sound, then it makes sense for the USA and Germany to provide equipment the way they do, enough for some gain but not enough to have them clear out the Russians from Ukraine without ending the conflict and have them think the only way to end things is in Russia. I'm not sure though about what USA/Germany wants from possible future peace talks or if they only hope this conflict ends in Ukraine by making it unsustainable for Russia in a similar way WW1 ended.



Around the Network
EpicRandy said:
RolStoppable said:

And you are still wrong. The user in question has had never a good experience when he went on one of his drug-infused posting sprees. It was all just random chance.

On topic: A few days ago I read an interview with a German military expert who said that the USA and Germany's goal in this war is to provide Ukraine with enough equipment to attain a better position for eventual peace talks with Russia, but not enough equipment to beat Russia on the battlefield. That rang true. While it is a naive approach in the given situation, it is what the USA and Germany have been doing. What do they hope to gain by making Russia not lose outright, I wonder.

I think it's more that Biden and Scholz are very similar types of leaders, too afraid of getting something definitive done when it's acting against the current polling data despite it being the right thing. The kind of right thing where the majority will only realize in hindsight that it was the right thing all along.

It's probably the same hold-up as when speaking of providing a long-range weapon. They don't want Ukraine to invade Russia in the end as it may escalate things drastically even though it would be more than justified and actually the sole way for Ukraine to win by the way of war.

Even if Ukraine liberate 100% of its territory, as long as Putin remains in power they'll continue their aggression, shelling and bombing Ukrainian cities with emphasis on civil infrastructure and crippling Ukraine's economy/export. The only way for Ukraine to win a decisive victory that forces Russia to stop its aggression is by having the Ukrainian Army in Moscow. The problem with this is it would force Russian allies to reconsider their position by either abandoning Russia or getting involved themselves. 

The USA certainly wants to avoid a redo of the Korean War situation where all seemingly went well up to the point they crossed over a line and China joined against them.

The only way to prevent a scenario like this unfortunately might be to keep the conflict within Ukraine's border. If this logic is sound, then it makes sense for the USA and Germany to provide equipment the way they do, enough for some gain but not enough to have them clear out the Russians from Ukraine without ending the conflict and have them think the only way to end things is in Russia. I'm not sure though about what USA/Germany wants from possible future peace talks or if they only hope this conflict ends in Ukraine by making it unsustainable for Russia in a similar way WW1 ended.

Well technically, since Russia "annexed" the regions they're occupying, Ukraine is already invading Russia as is. Of course, nobody outside of Russia takes those annexations seriously, but still, depending on who you ask, the Ukrainian offensive would be considered an invasion already.



Bofferbrauer2 said:
EpicRandy said:

It's probably the same hold-up as when speaking of providing a long-range weapon. They don't want Ukraine to invade Russia in the end as it may escalate things drastically even though it would be more than justified and actually the sole way for Ukraine to win by the way of war.

Even if Ukraine liberate 100% of its territory, as long as Putin remains in power they'll continue their aggression, shelling and bombing Ukrainian cities with emphasis on civil infrastructure and crippling Ukraine's economy/export. The only way for Ukraine to win a decisive victory that forces Russia to stop its aggression is by having the Ukrainian Army in Moscow. The problem with this is it would force Russian allies to reconsider their position by either abandoning Russia or getting involved themselves. 

The USA certainly wants to avoid a redo of the Korean War situation where all seemingly went well up to the point they crossed over a line and China joined against them.

The only way to prevent a scenario like this unfortunately might be to keep the conflict within Ukraine's border. If this logic is sound, then it makes sense for the USA and Germany to provide equipment the way they do, enough for some gain but not enough to have them clear out the Russians from Ukraine without ending the conflict and have them think the only way to end things is in Russia. I'm not sure though about what USA/Germany wants from possible future peace talks or if they only hope this conflict ends in Ukraine by making it unsustainable for Russia in a similar way WW1 ended.

Well technically, since Russia "annexed" the regions they're occupying, Ukraine is already invading Russia as is. Of course, nobody outside of Russia takes those annexations seriously, but still, depending on who you ask, the Ukrainian offensive would be considered an invasion already.

Yes, but I don't think any country with the exception of a Russian puppet one like Belarus recognizes Russian annexation so they don't amount to much, it's not like China would risk anything for an obvious sham. Also, NATO cannot act prudent regarding those territories without providing victory to Russia and confirming the validity of its aggressive stance and terrorist way of doing things.

IMO, the prism through which Nato actions should be viewed is always "how you ensure Russia's defeat without creating any opportunity for escalation with Russian allies that could trigger WW3 by a domino effect".



Lol. Hilarious.

Some internet losers better watch out.

Punishable on VGChartz by a permaban too.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 23 August 2023

Omfg.



OMFG