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Forums - Politics Discussion - Russia and Ukraine flashpoint

No decent human being will willingly go to Putin's funeral.



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Ryuu96 said:
crissindahouse said:

France really has to step up their military help for Ukraine (Italy as well). Just checked their equipment and they have a lot. Some hundred Leclerc in storage. Thousands of kinda modern IFVs and APCs and so on. And how big is their military support for Ukraine since the war began? 400 million..

Every country could help more but considering how the Eastern European countries already gave like everything away they could, especially France and Italy really need to step up their game looking at the amount of vehicles which Ukraine loses now. Countries like Poland just don't have hundreds of Soviet tanks anymore which they gave Ukraine the first year of the war

Russia's industry is in full war mode now and our politicians are still scared of spending more than the minimum. You see Macron everywhere but in the end it's almost no difference with or without France.

Agreed...You can say stuff about Germany at least having a...not so prepared military, but France is on paper the strongest EU military power and I feel like they could be doing a lot more than they are doing. Like...France should be leading the charge, not UK, Lol. France shouldn't need UK to move first before they send LeClerc's (which they still haven't) and where is SCALP.

Every Western country should do more because they live in the luxury of having the Eastern European countries sitting between them and Russia, who is going to take the blunt of Russia's force should they ever attack? Eastern Europe.

And France shows very little desire to help America with Taiwan too, at the same time, France keeps saying about how EU should remove its dependency on America and increase their military investment but France isn't showing they can be a leader in that respect.

Macron frustrates me.

The last Leclerc tanks were built 15 years ago and the production line has been scrapped by now, so they can't be replaced. There was supposed to be a joint tank development between Germany and France, but with Germany moving forward with the Leopard 2A8 and the appearance of the Panther KF51 will certainly not have been beneficial to the MGCS program. And even if everything were going as planned, it would still have taken until 2035 before a replacement for the Leclerc would be in production.

Since there's no new French tank on the horizon due to the above and stored tanks are being used for parts, France really doesn't have much Leclerc that they can donate to Ukraine, at least not in running order. But since there are almost as many in storage as there are in active service, they should absolutely be able to restore some of them to working order and send them to Ukraine. On the other hand, asking the UK to move first could also be just to buy time to do just that while sticking it up to the brits...

That being said, they certainly have other vehicles they could send to Ukraine, most notably more VAB. France had 2500 of them before the war started and they are currently getting replaced by the VMBR Griffon and the lighter VMBR-L Serval, of which over 530 have been produced already taken together. Another option would be to finance the continued production of some VBCI (2) and send those to Ukraine. Granted, that will take some time before those would be ready, but it could be started now and then sent in smaller batches later on. Also, they have several reconnaissance drones that have been replaced recently, and though they are in low numbers, Ukraine would certainly love having those at hand.

Finally, considering the situation in Ukraine, there's one more thing that could help a lot: France is developing and building several mine-clearing robots. Sending some of these to clear those minefields could even be considered humanitarian aid, as it would help avoid civilians being hit by them once the front moved away from where they are buried.



It's funny he claims more tanks lost by Russia than visually tracked by Oryx, Lol.

Obviously his Ukraine number is nonsense.



Ryuu96 said:

VOLKEL AIR BASE, Netherlands June 12 (Reuters) - Ukrainian pilots could begin training to fly U.S.-manufacture F-16 fighter jets as soon as this summer, the Dutch defense minister has told Reuters, a first step toward supplying Kyiv with a powerful, long-term capability in its war with Russia.

NATO allies the Netherlands and Denmark are leading an international coalition to train pilots and support staff, maintain aircraft and ultimately supply F-16s to Ukraine. Previously, the Netherlands had said it aimed to start training Ukrainian pilots "as soon as possible", but had stopped short of specifying when such training could get under way.

"This summer is our ambition. And we'll see if that's realistic" for the start of the training programme, Dutch Defense Minister Kajsa Ollongren told Reuters in an interview.

She said the aim would be to have the training programme fully operational within six months. Denmark, where there are flight simulators, is a possible location to host the program.

A final decision has not yet been taken on a request from Kyiv to supply dozens of F-16s, Ollongren said. The U.S.-backed training program will include Belgium and Luxembourg, while France and Britain have offered assistance, she said.

Exclusive: Coalition aims to begin Ukrainian F-16 pilot training by summer - Dutch minister | Reuters

Luxembourg? Luxembourg and what air force?

For those who don't know all we have here as an air force is an A400M transporter - and that one is even shared with Belgium.

CaptainExplosion said:

No decent human being will willingly go to Putin's funeral.

They'll go to the afterparty dancing all night.



Finland got good shit.

Just when you think you've learnt about all the lunatics, another crops up.



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What are tanks supposed to do if they are still not used when Russia attacks another European country and would attack many more if they succeed? Are those tanks all supposed to look good in the inventory or something? Eastern European countries give like everything they have and just have to hope to get defended by other countries in case Russia would win against Ukraine and then you have real military powers who are like "nahh, we can't give this or that". Sry, it's just laughable for me. The only country which would attack France is Russia so you can also use your tanks in Ukraine, you don't have to wait until Russia is knocking on your boarder.

And nobody is asking for everything. Give them 10% of what you have.



That's a lot of tanks...

Shame they aren't all Western MBTs.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 13 June 2023



The capabilities in this package include:

  • Additional munitions for National Advanced Surface-to-Air Missile Systems (NASAMS);
  • Stinger anti-aircraft systems;
  • Additional ammunition for High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems (HIMARS);
  • 155mm and 105mm artillery rounds;
  • 15 Bradley Infantry Fighting Vehicles;
  • 10 Stryker Armored Personnel Carriers;
  • Javelin anti-armor systems;
  • Tube-Launched, Optically-Tracked, Wire-Guided (TOW) missiles;
  • AT-4 anti-armor systems;
  • Over 22 million rounds of small arms ammunition and grenades;
  • Demolition munitions for obstacle clearing;
  • Tactical secure communications support equipment;
  • Spare parts and other field equipment.

Biden Administration Announces Additional Security Assistance for Ukraine > U.S. Department of Defense > Release

More Bradley's.

Tbh America could give these out like candy considering they have thousands.



Ukraine has not committed large numbers of tanks to the frontline so far, a point focused on by Ben Hodges, a former US army general. "When we see large, armoured formations join the assault, then I think we'll know the main attack has really begun," he wrote in a blogpost on Sunday.

That amounts, in his view, to two or three of the nine western trained and equipped brigades focused on a narrow front. Some of those nine have already been reported in action, such as the 47th brigade south of Orikhiv and the 37th farther east at Novodonestke, on the Donetsk sector of the southern front.

Others have not appeared at all, including the 116th, 117th and 118th brigade, all listed in the leaked Pentagon Papers as having at least some western equipment, again demonstrating that offensive, likely to run well into the summer, remains at its preliminary stages.

Think Ukraine’s Offensive Has Started? Wait for the Heavy Brigades

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 13 June 2023