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I have strong concerns about a "peace-keeping" force though, what is to stop the UK from simply withdrawing troops if they think things are getting too heated? What is to stop the next leaders from withdrawing them because they stupidly believe Russia won't attack (for the 3rd time)? Anything less than NATO is still worthless Imo, unless this is the most iron-clad security agreement second only to NATO with explicit terms that any attack on Ukraine is an attack on the UK and will be responded to with military, soldiers, actual attacks from the UK.

But even then I have my doubts there wouldn't be some get out clause or simply, a politician ignoring it, because who will stop them? The thing with ignoring NATO is that if that happened it would pretty much destroy the whole idea of NATO so that's a lot harder to ignore than individual security agreements and Ukraine already had one of those which did absolutely nothing to stop the invasion. Putin can wait out any "peace-keeping" forces, especially if sanctions were lifted on Russia allowing them to rebuild their military.

And secondly, the stolen territory needs to return to Ukraine.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - 5 days ago

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Ryuu96 said:

I have strong concerns about a "peace-keeping" force though, what is to stop the UK from simply withdrawing troops if they think things are getting too heated? What is to stop the next leaders from withdrawing them because they stupidly believe Russia won't attack (for the 3rd time)? Anything less than NATO is still worthless Imo, unless this is the most iron-clad security agreement second only to NATO with explicit terms that any attack on Ukraine is an attack on the UK and will be responded to with military, soldiers, actual attacks from the UK.

But even then I have my doubts there wouldn't be some get out clause or simply, a politician ignoring it, because who will stop them? The thing with ignoring NATO is that if that happened it would pretty much destroy the whole idea of NATO so that's a lot harder to ignore than individual security agreements and Ukraine already had one of those which did absolutely nothing to stop the invasion. Putin can wait out any "peace-keeping" forces, especially if sanctions were lifted on Russia allowing them to rebuild their military.

And secondly, the stolen territory needs to return to Ukraine.

Peace-keeping doesn't have to be a permanent option though, it just needs to buy Ukraine enough time to re-arm itself and hopefully to a much better state too. Peace-keeping will also increase the threshold for Russia to attack again, even if it ends up not preventing an attack altogether. Also, Russia is probably much less likely to try again if Ukraine gets time to re-arm itself after seeing how this 3-day operation went. We just need to get Ukraine past its weakest moment, and the situation should already be much better. I'm sure Russia will try again if given the chance, but it also helps if we can just buy Ukraine enough time.

It also helps that Putin isn't all that young anymore. He still has quite a few strong years in him, but he doesn't have forever either. Maybe he's capable until 80, or maybe he start's slowing down sooner.

That said, I do agree that there probably needs to be a proper guarantee as well, and at the moment it's hard to see peace-keeping being that guarantee.



Ryuu96 said:

I have strong concerns about a "peace-keeping" force though, what is to stop the UK from simply withdrawing troops if they think things are getting too heated? What is to stop the next leaders from withdrawing them because they stupidly believe Russia won't attack (for the 3rd time)? Anything less than NATO is still worthless Imo, unless this is the most iron-clad security agreement second only to NATO with explicit terms that any attack on Ukraine is an attack on the UK and will be responded to with military, soldiers, actual attacks from the UK.

But even then I have my doubts there wouldn't be some get out clause or simply, a politician ignoring it, because who will stop them? The thing with ignoring NATO is that if that happened it would pretty much destroy the whole idea of NATO so that's a lot harder to ignore than individual security agreements and Ukraine already had one of those which did absolutely nothing to stop the invasion. Putin can wait out any "peace-keeping" forces, especially if sanctions were lifted on Russia allowing them to rebuild their military.

And secondly, the stolen territory needs to return to Ukraine.

Perhaps the various powers of the world are wanting to be rather machivellian, and use this war to exhaust russia.  If so, then they would want Ukraine to continue fighting and regain its lost territory.  


I personally wish that Ukraine gets everything back, since anything lost seems like a win for the biggest bully in the world.  





shavenferret said:
Ryuu96 said:

I have strong concerns about a "peace-keeping" force though, what is to stop the UK from simply withdrawing troops if they think things are getting too heated? What is to stop the next leaders from withdrawing them because they stupidly believe Russia won't attack (for the 3rd time)? Anything less than NATO is still worthless Imo, unless this is the most iron-clad security agreement second only to NATO with explicit terms that any attack on Ukraine is an attack on the UK and will be responded to with military, soldiers, actual attacks from the UK.

But even then I have my doubts there wouldn't be some get out clause or simply, a politician ignoring it, because who will stop them? The thing with ignoring NATO is that if that happened it would pretty much destroy the whole idea of NATO so that's a lot harder to ignore than individual security agreements and Ukraine already had one of those which did absolutely nothing to stop the invasion. Putin can wait out any "peace-keeping" forces, especially if sanctions were lifted on Russia allowing them to rebuild their military.

And secondly, the stolen territory needs to return to Ukraine.

Perhaps the various powers of the world are wanting to be rather machivellian, and use this war to exhaust russia.  If so, then they would want Ukraine to continue fighting and regain its lost territory.  


I personally wish that Ukraine gets everything back, since anything lost seems like a win for the biggest bully in the world.  

Russia is not even being close to being exhausted. Only a part of Europe has a problem with what Russia is doing. The rest of the world is probably happy this conflict is deeply dividing Europe and Nato.

At this point it seems likely that:

Russia gets all the territory it conquered

USA gets minerals at a bargain price 

Europe can pay for rebuilding and the refugees

Ukraine doesn't get into NATO nor US defense and EU defense in Ukraine is too little to matter, since most EU nations couldn't even defend themselves. 



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

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Russia has had so many wars in Europe that have given them little chunks of territory every time. And those chunks have added up. This has got to stop or it will keep happening. kick some ass ukraine, make it hurt.



Qwark said:
shavenferret said:

Perhaps the various powers of the world are wanting to be rather machivellian, and use this war to exhaust russia.  If so, then they would want Ukraine to continue fighting and regain its lost territory.  

I personally wish that Ukraine gets everything back, since anything lost seems like a win for the biggest bully in the world.  

Russia is not even being close to being exhausted. Only a part of Europe has a problem with what Russia is doing. The rest of the world is probably happy this conflict is deeply dividing Europe and Nato.

At this point it seems likely that:

Russia gets all the territory it conquered

USA gets minerals at a bargain price 

Europe can pay for rebuilding and the refugees

Ukraine doesn't get into NATO nor US defense and EU defense in Ukraine is too little to matter, since most EU nations couldn't defend themselves.

I am not as convinced as others that Russia is on the verge of collapse or exhausted in totality but I likewise thing you're being a bit exaggeratory on Russia's current condition, for one thing they are on the verge of economic collapse, secondly, they have lost a significant quantity and quality of heavy equipment, I mean we have Russians using donkeys to transfer equipment, mopeds to travel across battlefields and straight up some of them are simply marching on foot under drone bombardment in the open fields. Unfortunately Russia still has millions of citizens to throw to their deaths and turn this into a WW1 style slog but they've taken a serious beating in heavy equipment losses.

I also don't know why you believe that only a part of Europe has a problem with what Russia is doing, it is almost the whole of Europe that has a problem with what Russia is doing (UK, France, Italy, Spain, Germany, Finland, Norway, Sweden, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Czech Republic, Poland, etc) The only ones who don't have a problem are Hungary and Slovakia and Slovakia is debatable because Fico was only recently elected and is taking an old grudge out on Ukraine, before Fico, Slovakia was one of the strongest supporters of Ukraine, Fico also currently has huge protests against himself going on right now as well and is likely not going to win another election at this rate.

If by rest of the world, you mean China, then sure, Lol. But we've seen all the UN votes already and majority of the world is against what Russia is doing, likewise, Canada definitely won't be happy that America and Europe are coming into conflict with each other, likewise, what on earth would make you believe that countries like South Korea, Taiwan, Japan, etc. Would be happy to see America spit in the face of their allies, when those countries also heavily rely on America for their protection? Japan won't be happy either, as Japan has their own reasons to hate Russia (Kuril Islands).

Your likely to happen is basically a complete win for Russia and entirely pessimistic take. Russia steals territory, America plunders Ukraine, Europe foots the bill to repair Ukraine alone, Ukraine is defenceless in the future and Russia then attacks again in the future. Half of this stuff is not going to be agreed upon at all. "Since most EU nations couldn't defend themselves" is nonsense, it's more about political will than actual military capability, will they put themselves in an uncomfortable situation, if there was no nukes and Europe had some balls, Russia would have been pushed out of Ukraine already and been completely defeated.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - 4 days ago

🇸🇪🇺🇦 Sweden does not rule out sending troops to Ukraine as part of a peacekeeping mission.

Foreign Minister Maria Malmer Stenergard stated that once a just and lasting peace is established, Sweden "must help maintain it."

en.apa.az/europe/fm-sw...

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— NOELREPORTS (@noelreports.com) 17 February 2025 at 09:13

Russia remains the greatest threat to Europe. Lithuanian Defense Minister warns: "Putin won’t change. We have 3–4 years to fully prepare for a major war in Europe. NATO must be 100% ready to fight at any moment. The only way to avoid war is to be fully prepared for it."

kam.lt/d-sakaliene-...

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— NOELREPORTS (@noelreports.com) 17 February 2025 at 15:22

🤡 Russia's UN permanent representative Nebenzya claims Ukraine has "irreversibly lost" Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson & Zaporizhzhia. He added that the war’s "hot phase" may soon end, insists EU & UK can’t be part of future Ukraine deals and demands Ukraine to be neutral & demilitarized.

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— NOELREPORTS (@noelreports.com) 17 February 2025 at 16:26

🇺🇦 Ukraine can produce 4M drones per year despite the war, says Foreign Minister Andriy Sybiha at a defense expo in the UAE. In 2024, Ukraine produced over 1.5M drones. Meanwhile Ukraine still seeks investment for mass production of long-range missiles & drones.

unn.ua/news/ukraina...

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— NOELREPORTS (@noelreports.com) 17 February 2025 at 16:28

🇺🇸🇺🇦 Trump's Ukraine Envoy Keith Kellogg assures that no one will force Ukraine into peace deals—this decision must be made by the president and the people.

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— NOELREPORTS (@noelreports.com) 17 February 2025 at 16:55


The US tried to blackmail Ukraine in Munich: sign the mineral deal or no meeting with VP Vance, per European Pravda. When Kyiv sought a compromise, the US rejected all key changes. Zelensky refused to sign under pressure—suddenly, the hardline stance disappeared, and talks with Vance went ahead.

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— NOELREPORTS (@noelreports.com) 17 February 2025 at 15:24

Zelensky was given just one hour to sign a mineral deal in exchange for continued U.S. support. U.S. Treasury Secretary Bessent set the deadline. Zelensky responded: "We are not a raw materials country. It’s about investment, not just taking our resources."

www.economist.com/europe/2025/...

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— NOELREPORTS (@noelreports.com) 17 February 2025 at 15:16

America is pure scum lately, Lol.



Putin wants NATO troops removed from the whole of the former Soviet empire. European officials believe Trump is likely to agree to withdraw US troops from the Baltics and perhaps further west, leaving the EU vulnerable to a Russian army is preparing for more war.

www.ft.com/content/11f1...

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— NOELREPORTS (@noelreports.com) 17 February 2025 at 15:19

Lol. Trump may be considering more major concessions to Putin should be the headlines, Trump may be considering surrendering even harder than he already has. America withdrawing from the Baltics would be insane and be them giving up any form of soft-power they have in Eastern Europe and send a message to their allies in Asia as well that they'll be backstabbed one day too. This is complete madness from a foreign policy and global soft-power perspective, I mean, if America wants to surrender all of that then okay, but they won't like the consequences of this decision in the future. It has America pre-WW2 vibes, Lol.