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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Misogyny, Bigotry, and the Gaming Community

sethnintendo said:

It isn't because lack of god.  A majority of religious people can barely stand someone of different sexual orientation and you are trying to act like you have the moral high ground.  It is education and parental upbringing that is the key.   A person isn't born a racist or asshole.  They are taught to be one. 

See that's where I disagree.  I believe that we are all born with an innate and fallen desire to do evil.  It's by developing virtue that we learn to overcome it and embrace the best qualities in ourselves.  I remember doing bad stuff when I was even 5 years old, yes I did learn how to express these ugly feelings from others but the underlying feelings and tendencies were there on their own.  Losing my temper, getting jealous of a friend or having ignorant/discriminatory thoughts about people that looked/behaved differently than me were all things that just happened, I didn't have to be taught how to feel these feelings or have these thoughts.  That said, I had to be taught and really had to work on overcoming these bad temptations and it is constant process to keep from falling back into it.

The problem is that we live in a society that teaches that it is OK to hate conservative Christians, Trump supporters, those that don't want to take a vaccination, basically 50% of society and that it is good when they lose their jobs, etc.  But then people are expected to have a cult-like love for any of the identity politics labels that are championed by the left.  This is a completely inconsistent and shallow virtue signal that completely fails as any kind of moral philosophy, in my view.  Our society today sees the value of morality as being something incredibly superficial and there is really no reason (that we can explain) to be good if nobody is around to see it or congratulate us.  Can you even explain the underlying reason as to why it is wrong to be an a*hole to somebody online?  Yes, it hurts somebody, but why is that wrong?  You need to be able to answer these deep, underlying questions if you want to impact and change somebody's deeply held moral compass, otherwise people will only comply when there are consequences in place to enforce it.  Online, people know that they can get away with a lot without getting caught and so the decision not to mistreat somebody really comes down to a person's own moral compass.  People with spiritual belief (not even necessarily Christian) understand that there are eternal consequences for mistreating our neighbor and even with the veil of anonymity, doing wrong to others will have consequences on us.  As a result, to compensate for this absence of actual morality, our society looks to bring in more rules, restrictions on freedoms to enforce compliance with the prescribed and increasingly shallow belief system.

So if you hate Christianity, fine, pick another belief: Buddhism, Hinduism, etc.  I am a Christian but you would be better of with any of those beliefs by far than with the current prevailing value system in our society which is basically just leading to total authoritarianism.  Almost any religion/spiritual philosophy teaches the reality of good vs. evil and the necessity for us to work hard to be excellent human beings where love of one's neighbor is always a central value.  That is the only way that you are going to change people's behavior on their own will, the only other answer is massive police-state authoritarianism to force 100% compliance which is I guess where we are headed.



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pokoko said:

The "male = bad, female = good" rhetoric prevalent now...

VAMatt said:
 

I think your understanding of the problems at Activision is wrong.  Rape threats and sexual violence are definitely not what this is primarily about.  They're a tiny little sliver of it.  Most of it is your more run of the mill sexual harassment, women being taken less seriously, passed up for promotions, and the like.  

Yep, it's U.S. Women's History Month on VGC.

TallSilhouette said:
KLAMarine said:

Considering online forums like this one are generally open to the public, could you point me to some interactions wherein female gamers receive backlash for being themselves and thus are discouraged from participating?

Well, I linked to several such examples in the OP (particularly the third video, forum-wise). If you're talking about VGC specifically, that scarcity of open members of the community and the site's...less than perfect search function makes it difficult for me to relocate particular instances of toxic interactions. Jaicee could probably give you some personal examples if she wanted, as could Onionberry if she were still around. I haven't been active as long as others here but I struggle to recall any other female members I'm personally familiar with.

While I wouldn't say that I've experienced a lot of sexual harassment here on VGC (save for from one member very publicly the other summer who is now gone), when I first joined some five years ago, this forum was I would say about 75% more sexist than it is today, to an extent that was intimidating for me, to which end I didn't post very much in my first year here. VGC used to be rife with "waifu" contests and self-described "manosphere" people of all sorts and so forth that I always found demeaning and off-putting and can't help, you know, not missing. (In the interim, I think both the forum rules and median age of forum members have both changed somewhat and I suspect both of those things have been factors.) For a while in 2018, I took to documenting examples of threads, and the occasional individual post, that struck me as especially hostile in nature just to have reference points. I didn't even bother with the low-hanging fruit in the NSFW sub-forum because that was too easy and obvious, mind you, as basically that whole sub-forum is one gigantic cesspool of misogyny, and it used to be more so than today back when it was more active. Anyway, the task became so continuous and overwhelming though do to the sheer volume of examples that I eventually abandoned the effort. But to highlight just a few of what I consider the classics that I did document back then, I would just reference the following threads, along with a fun individual post to the same effect:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

June 10, 2018: individual post
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The principal example though I like to turn to is the, by number of views, most popular article ever posted to the VGC main page, which is essentially a defense of pedophilia from around the same point in time, written and sponsored by the staff itself. It was this article that inspired me to start documenting anti-female threads and content for a time. That this was the most popular article ever posted here to me just said everything that needed to be said about the forum's target audience. All one has to do is read the most up-voted comment to gather what the intended response/effect was.

For an example of the kind of sexual harassment I receive online sometimes, I documented an absolute classic example I received on a different message board last April.
Last edited by Jaicee - on 03 March 2022

I have found that among gamers (us), things of this nature are pretty non-existent. But it's quite common when you get into--for lack of a better term--the dude-bro community. If you've spent any amount of time in a COD lobby with the audio on a month after it launches and the player count his massive, you'll know what I mean. But that just speaks to the sad truth, which is that sexism, racism... all the isms, really... are just a part of human nature and they're never, ever going to go away . Murder, rape, greed... we are an imperfect species. The best thing you can do is just be as good a person as you can and solider on. Worrying too much about other people's lives is just going to degrade your own.



Illusion said:
sethnintendo said:

It isn't because lack of god.  A majority of religious people can barely stand someone of different sexual orientation and you are trying to act like you have the moral high ground.  It is education and parental upbringing that is the key.   A person isn't born a racist or asshole.  They are taught to be one.

See that's where I disagree.  I believe that we are all born with an innate and fallen desire to do evil.  It's by developing virtue that we learn to overcome it and embrace the best qualities in ourselves.  I remember doing bad stuff when I was even 5 years old, yes I did learn how to express these ugly feelings from others but the underlying feelings and tendencies were there on their own.  Losing my temper, getting jealous of a friend or having ignorant/discriminatory thoughts about people that looked/behaved differently than me were all things that just happened, I didn't have to be taught how to feel these feelings or have these thoughts.  That said, I had to be taught and really had to work on overcoming these bad temptations and it is constant process to keep from falling back into it.

The problem is that we live in a society that teaches that it is OK to hate conservative Christians, Trump supporters, those that don't want to take a vaccination, basically 50% of society and that it is good when they lose their jobs, etc.  But then people are expected to have a cult-like love for any of the identity politics labels that are championed by the left.  This is a completely inconsistent and shallow virtue signal that completely fails as any kind of moral philosophy, in my view.  Our society today sees the value of morality as being something incredibly superficial and there is really no reason (that we can explain) to be good if nobody is around to see it or congratulate us.  Can you even explain the underlying reason as to why it is wrong to be an a*hole to somebody online?  Yes, it hurts somebody, but why is that wrong?  You need to be able to answer these deep, underlying questions if you want to impact and change somebody's deeply held moral compass, otherwise people will only comply when there are consequences in place to enforce it.  Online, people know that they can get away with a lot without getting caught and so the decision not to mistreat somebody really comes down to a person's own moral compass.  People with spiritual belief (not even necessarily Christian) understand that there are eternal consequences for mistreating our neighbor and even with the veil of anonymity, doing wrong to others will have consequences on us.  As a result, to compensate for this absence of actual morality, our society looks to bring in more rules, restrictions on freedoms to enforce compliance with the prescribed and increasingly shallow belief system.

So if you hate Christianity, fine, pick another belief: Buddhism, Hinduism, etc.  I am a Christian but you would be better of with any of those beliefs by far than with the current prevailing value system in our society which is basically just leading to total authoritarianism.  Almost any religion/spiritual philosophy teaches the reality of good vs. evil and the necessity for us to work hard to be excellent human beings where love of one's neighbor is always a central value.  That is the only way that you are going to change people's behavior on their own will, the only other answer is massive police-state authoritarianism to force 100% compliance which is I guess where we are headed.

And what do you say to the con man ex president that tried to overthrow our government acting like he is a Christian when he obviously is not?   That is authoritarianism.