By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - General Discussion - Do you believe in ghosts? Paranormal stuff?

 

Are ghosts real?

Yes 12 25.53%
 
No 28 59.57%
 
Not sure 7 14.89%
 
Total:47
Shadow1980 said:

Ghosts? As in the souls of dead people roaming the physical world? Probably not. There's no good evidence for them. I'd file them under "unproven" at best. Funny enough, atheists and I think most Christians would both say "no" because the former think souls don't exist in the first place and the latter think the soul either goes to Heaven or Hell (at least all the ones I know believe that).

As for other supernatural phenomenon, they range from "unproven/unprovable" to "demonstrably false." Essentially every known physical phenomena once ascribed to supernatural forces like deities, demons, witches, magic, fairies, goblins, etc., was eventually demonstrated to be the result of natural forces. For example, illnesses aren't the result of curses but rather the result microorganisms or dysfunctions of the body (e.g., genetic illnesses, cancers, autoimmune disorders). Horoscopes are utter nonsense, as not only are they inconsistent and generally just plain don't work, but they have no plausible mechanism to explain why the positions of the stars and planets at the time of your birth influence your life. Every human that has claimed to have supernatural or paranormal powers (e.g., faith healing, telepathy, telekinesis) has been demonstrated to be a fraud and generally have never been demonstrated in controlled conditions. Basically, whenever some claim of the supernatural or paranormal lends itself to some actual test of some kind, they always seem to fail the test or otherwise come up short.

Now, some things may simply be unable to be conclusively answered one way or the other by science: Do sentient beings have souls, and consequently does an afterlife of some kind exist? Does a god of some kind exist? Arguably, the only way to find out the answer is to die, and regardless of what if anything happens to us after we die, death is clearly an event horizon of sorts where nothing can be communicated back to the living by the dead. But the universe clearly operates on the basis of natural law, as if there is no actively guiding intelligence (meaning a deity of some kind that actively meddles with and is responsible for the day-to-day goings-on of the universe, as opposed to deistic conceptions of a hands-off God), so if someone assumes that supernatural things just don't exist, I can't blame them. Personally, I hope there's some sort of afterlife, some sort of higher purpose to everything, because otherwise our existence is hopeless and bleak, devoid of any intrinsic value, with no real point to anything, intelligent life only deluding itself into believing that our lives have any meaning, that free will and thus culpability and accountability don't really exist. But, given the track record of the world's various religious and spiritual belief systems, I can't bring myself to actively believe in any sort of supernatural realm beyond our own. So, I try my best not to really worry about it. As I get older I may start to sing a different tune, but my default stance is "I don't know."

Why do you need your life to have some kind of higher purpose for it not to be hopeless and bleak? I'd rather think it's quite the opposite. The fact that we have only one life makes it precious and beautiful and we should make the most of it. The point is to find our own meaning and perhaps help others find theirs.

If I found out that my life was just a part of some grand plan orchestrated from upstairs and that it would go on forever in various forms would be absolute horror for me.



Around the Network
JackHandy said:
SvennoJ said:

The problem with memory is, it's a reconstructive process that alters the memory based on either new information or simply by re-activating the memory. Human memory is not constant and is easily influenced by other people. Perception is the same, an interpretive process that gets edited as if it was like that when it happened. That's how dreams work where something starts happening in a dream and you wake up by the sound it makes, which happens to be a real life sound. You didn't predict the sound, when the brain registered the sound it started making up an explanation for it. Since you were still in a dream state it sort of projects the 'story' into past memory as if you knew of the sound before it happened.

Simply the act of sharing information, contaminates the event. Now if that person had written down their experience when it happened before hearing about what happened to the others, it would be a bit more credible. Yet providing an 'explanation' sends the brain at work to agree with what the others experienced.

Did anyone think to record the event?

I can't rule it out that things didn't happen as you say, but the brain is just notoriously unreliable and very easy to alter events after the affect while it seems that's what happened at the time.

No, we didn't record the event. It would have required some sort of planning or good luck, as we don't have any surveillance cameras in our home. I did try to makeshift-record things, just in the event that something happened right then and there, but I couldn't just stand still, holding my phone all day. And even if I did, I doubt anything would have happened as this thing was displaying innate intelligence.

For example, one time we were standing in the dinning room, and I asked the other person who was standing back there with me if they felt like something was in the room with us (I was a complete skeptic at that point, and was pretty much laughing while I asked the question). The person (who was not a skeptic at all) paused, seemed to consider it, then said that they felt like there was. Which was funny to me at the time because up until then, most of the "stuff" that was happening, took place in the dinning room. So I joked about it. I looked into the room and said something like, "Why in the world do you have to stay back here? What is it about the dinning room?" Then the other person joked as well and said something to the effect of, "Yeah... what's the deal?" And then, almost on cue, there were two loud thumps on the floor. Not any old thumps either. These were obvious footfalls, like a large child crossing their arms, pouting their lips and stomping their feet on the floor after being told they couldn't go out and play because they had to stay inside and do their homework. It was jarring, loud and caused both of us to flinch as if something had smacked us. Our eyes widened, our laughing ceased and my heart was basically trying to jump out of my throat. 

Another incident was later on. This was during the day. Someone had gone to the store and gotten groceries. They were on their knees in front of the fridge, putting the things they'd gotten away. Another person was in the kitchen as well, preparing food. Suddenly, from downstairs, there was a loud crash which was so sharp, it caused both people to scream. When I went down the stairs to see what it was (at this point, I was starting to buy into it as a real thing, even though I didn't want to because of how insane it was), there was a large garbage bag filled with empty Tide detergent bottles laying in the middle of the laundry room floor. I stood there, eyed them, then called back up to the kitchen and asked if that bag had been stored on a shelf or maybe even stacked on top of something in the room. When the answer was no, that's when I was like... okay, guess this crap is real, because there was no way that bag could have gotten to the place in the room that it had gotten to--not without telekinesis being involved, anyway--and certainly not with the force with which it had slammed into the ground. Something had lifted that heavy bag up in the air and had slammed it down, hard.

There was some other stuff to: A dark, featureless, yet distinctly human-like shadow floating out of the living room and into the kitchen. Someone's hair being playfully tugged in the hallway. Heavy footsteps walking the house in the middle of the night when no one was up. Handles to things being violently flung closed in front of multiple people--one time, while someone was literally explaining to another person in the room how they'd experienced that very same thing the day before. This last event caused both people scream, it was so sharp, abrupt and on cue.

So no, I don't believe these are glitches. I would have before this all happened. Back then, I too was under the belief that if they're real, there's probably some sort of scientific explanation (parallel universes, magnetic fields, brain glitches, mental illnesses etc.) behind it all. But I certainly didn't buy into it being the product of some kind of intelligent energy force. And that goes double for the concept of departed souls.

But not anymore. I still can't explain what happened, but it was no trick of the mind, at least not in our case. And it definitely displayed intelligence. It understood what we were staying. It knew where we were, what we were doing and when we were doing it. It was calculating and clever--and it planned these events based on these things. To that, I'm 100% positive. 

But, again--I don't expect you (or anyone else) to believe any of this. How could I, when I use to feel the same way? It's just so ridiculous, so Hollywood, so hokey and so utterly make-believe-sounding that to expect people to believe it would be outright delusional, at best.

One thing is for sure though: I no longer discount people's testimony when I hear ghost stories or similar experiences. As a matter of fact, I compare and contrast--wondering if their experiences were anything like ours.

If I had things like that happen to me, I'd rig the house with automated surveillance equipment to catch something. It would be a scientific revolution that would change the world, it would be all I could think about. And yet for some reason people who claim to see these things happen just seem to go on with their lives and shrug their shoulders at the whole thing, that doesn't make sense.



Dante9 said:

Why do you need your life to have some kind of higher purpose for it not to be hopeless and bleak? I'd rather think it's quite the opposite. The fact that we have only one life makes it precious and beautiful and we should make the most of it. The point is to find our own meaning and perhaps help others find theirs.

If I found out that my life was just a part of some grand plan orchestrated from upstairs and that it would go on forever in various forms would be absolute horror for me.

I had a long, drawn-out reply to this partially written, but I was getting bummed out just writing it because it got pretty dark and depressing and I have enough anxiety over the subjects of life and death as it is, and I'd prefer to not dwell on it. Suffice it say, the philosophical implications of a totally materialistic worldview, namely its inherent nihilism, are there whether we want to truly face them or not.



Visit http://shadowofthevoid.wordpress.com

In accordance to the VGC forum rules, §8.5, I hereby exercise my right to demand to be left alone regarding the subject of the effects of the pandemic on video game sales (i.e., "COVID bump").

hiccupthehuman said:

I do believe in ghosts and spirits, yeah. Wouldn't bet my life savings on it tho.

There is the argument that there is no reliable evidence for it (or when there is video footage, people do not believe it), or science can't prove it. These are all valid positions.
But I will say that just because science can't prove it yet does not mean it definitively does not exist.

Human caused global warming, for instance, was happening since the industrial revolution in the 17th century. But serious research in the global warming only started in 1950-70s.  But that doesn't mean that global warming wasn't real before that.

There really is no way to definitively prove that something does not exist with some slight exceptions for things that are logically impossible. The best reason to not believe that something exists is that there is no evidence for it. That is especially the case when it is something people have been attempting to demonstrate for centuries, and something that, by most definitions, would violate the rules of physics/biology as we know them.

I can't say anything definitively, but if there were some way to find the correct answer, I would bet my life savings that ghosts, by all definitions I've heard, do not exist.

Shadow1980 said:
Dante9 said:

Why do you need your life to have some kind of higher purpose for it not to be hopeless and bleak? I'd rather think it's quite the opposite. The fact that we have only one life makes it precious and beautiful and we should make the most of it. The point is to find our own meaning and perhaps help others find theirs.

If I found out that my life was just a part of some grand plan orchestrated from upstairs and that it would go on forever in various forms would be absolute horror for me.

I had a long, drawn-out reply to this partially written, but I was getting bummed out just writing it because it got pretty dark and depressing and I have enough anxiety over the subjects of life and death as it is, and I'd prefer to not dwell on it. Suffice it say, the philosophical implications of a totally materialistic worldview, namely its inherent nihilism, are there whether we want to truly face them or not.

I'm a methodological naturalist and not at all a nihilist. The fact that I'm almost certainly not going to exist forever does not in any way make me not want to enjoy myself while I do, and it does not make me want to help others enjoy their time here any less.



LittleSnake said:

People don't believe in paranormal stuff because it's never happened to them

Ebola has never happened to me but I believe it exists. I've never been chased by a polar bear, experienced a tornado, or had a kidney stone either, but I believe in those. Because there is verifiable evidence that these things are real.

I'll believe in the paranormal as soon as there is sufficient empirical evidence to support its existence.



Bet with Liquidlaser: I say PS5 and Xbox Series will sell more than 56 million combined by the end of 2023.

Around the Network

Depends on your definition. But I strongly believe that there is so much of this world than we can't see, measure, or even understand. Our limits as species are obvious. Science is our way to understand more, but as long as we are limited by space and time, we can never understand it all. 

Last edited by Astral - on 03 July 2021

curl-6 said:
LittleSnake said:

People don't believe in paranormal stuff because it's never happened to them

Ebola has never happened to me but I believe it exists. I've never been chased by a polar bear, experienced a tornado, or had a kidney stone either, but I believe in those. Because there is verifiable evidence that these things are real.

I'll believe in the paranormal as soon as there is sufficient empirical evidence to support its existence.

Comparing a polar bear or tornado to ebola or paranormal is kinda weird but okay. Challenge accepted 



If you require alcohol to have fun, then you have a problem

I hope it there is nothing otherwise some entities have seen some sick shit which i dont wanna get a reminder of when i kick the bucket



 "I think people should define the word crap" - Kirby007

Join the Prediction League http://www.vgchartz.com/predictions

Instead of seeking to convince others, we can be open to changing our own minds, and seek out information that contradicts our own steadfast point of view. Maybe it’ll turn out that those who disagree with you actually have a solid grasp of the facts. There’s a slight possibility that, after all, you’re the one who’s wrong.

S.Peelman said:

No, utter nonsense. There’s no logical reason for that to be true and everything always has a rational explanation, whether you have one ready or not. I have no reason to believe in things I cannot see or detect in some way. Darkness is just the absence of light, and the world is exactly the same in it.

So right as I type this I’m in the attic, and I hear cracking and tapping sounds all around me, even though there’s nothing and no-one here with me. A less informed person could be thinking this is a ghost, but no, it’s just the wooden beams in the roof that are stretching and moving.

‘Life’ is just a very complicated chemical reaction, nothing more, and when we ‘die’, our molecules will get scattered again to be used in another complicated chemical reaction sometime later, there’s no need for ‘spirits’.

I usually agree with your posts entirely, Peelman (seriously, you could be my buddy) but not here. I agree with you that logically it makes no sense and life is so very complicated, but I truly believe we don’t (as humans) know even half as much as we think we do. I really, logically speaking, agree with your whole post. But there is so much we just can’t explain, and - bear with me, here - maybe there is something that defies “our” sense of logic. Maybe, maybe not. Again, I agree with the premise of your post and I am loathe to say I might believe in such vague concepts such as god or ghosts, but I truly feel maybe there are things we just don’t understand or even know about. Anyway, this is a very interesting thread and I value your opinion greatly 🙂



Shadow1980 said:
Dante9 said:

Why do you need your life to have some kind of higher purpose for it not to be hopeless and bleak? I'd rather think it's quite the opposite. The fact that we have only one life makes it precious and beautiful and we should make the most of it. The point is to find our own meaning and perhaps help others find theirs.

If I found out that my life was just a part of some grand plan orchestrated from upstairs and that it would go on forever in various forms would be absolute horror for me.

I had a long, drawn-out reply to this partially written, but I was getting bummed out just writing it because it got pretty dark and depressing and I have enough anxiety over the subjects of life and death as it is, and I'd prefer to not dwell on it. Suffice it say, the philosophical implications of a totally materialistic worldview, namely its inherent nihilism, are there whether we want to truly face them or not.

OK, I wouldn't want you to go into any dark spirals over this. I'll just say that I don't think a world without a higher power makes it automatically materialistic or nihilistic. People have values and aspirations that transcend material things. They are capable of beautiful things. Also, it can be argued that life in itself has intrinsic value. A way for the universe to perceive itself, if you will.