Where did you get that % advantage? From the tflop number? and then you tell me its not about the tflop number? Real world performance acording to nvidea themselfs and digital foundry, its not that much higher. We still dont know the consoles real peformance, so you might end up right anyways, but untill then the 3070 is only a tiny bit better on real world performance but over 50% on paper than the 2080ti.

Watched the DF vid, performance increase is pretty significant with RT enabled as well.

Bro what you talking about? Its a direct nvedia to nvedia comparison here. one gen to another. meaning the rumors might be correct and nvidea does not have a big performance increase, wich is why they are going with a bigger chip to compensate..... Maybe. I dont know its why I asked if anybody knows the size of theese chips. We have the cuda core increase, wich the 3080 is almost 3x the 2080 while not delivering 2x the performance, and we have the clock speed is slower. Something is fishy here and im just asking questions.

While for amd the only thing we know is the consoles specs. And the only real world application I know off was the series x runing gears 5 at the same settings as a 2080ti. Dont think this means much as that would be an optimized title. But it still something.  Also that the ps5 is capable of clocking at 2.23GHz. Im willing to bet any bigger card from amd will be able to clock at the same freq or higher, specially if allowed to be 350 watts. 

Again, I dont belive AMD will beat the 3090, but nobody cares as that wont be the real battleground, its the 3080 that AMD has to compete with and acording to the performance they described and digital foundry showed, I think AMD has a real shot if they can deliver the 2x 5700xt they promissed. 

Compared to a 2080.

My point was is that stating "just 7 tflops more" as something that doesn't matter, doesn't make any sense. If we had GPUs with hundreds of TFLOPs of processing power, then just 7 tflops more wouldn't have been an issue. But here we have an increase from 13 TFLOPS (2080 Ti) to 17 TFLOPS (3070). Doesn't seem like a small deal. And if we even don't use TFLOPs as a measure, are you sure you watched the same Digital Foundry vid that I did? 3080 has around 80% increase over 2080 in real performance in almost any game. That's kinda huge in my opinion.

But that 7 tflop advantage is not an 80% gain you are comparing. The 80% advantage from the 2080 to the 3080 wich is a 10.7 tflops to 30 tflops. 3x on paper to only 1.8x on real world performance. From 215 watts to 320 watts so 1.5x. They claimed a 1.9x performance per watt while we see a around 20% real world increase. 

All im saying is those paper specs they are claiming are not shown in the real world performance gained showed by digital foundry. And at the end of the day is the real world performance they have to beat, not paper spec and the bar was set along the promised goal lisa su promissed. 

Edit: On paper the 3080 is 33.33% better than a 3070. so a quick correlation would sugest the 3070 is 20% than a 2080. We obiously need to wait on benchmarks. but if so, I see the series x matching it. 

AMD are who you are using that comparison to build a case for how they could compete so even though you're comparing Nvidia cards you have to factor in the relevance of Tfs of AMD compared to the Tfs of Nvidia when looking at the increases, the is twice the performance over the 2080Ti while everything is set to ultra and that's with added features and running at 4K/60fps, try running Control at 4k/60fps with any current GPU at ultra settings to see just what they pulled off all current GPUs struggle to stay at 60fps even when not on ultra settings and 4k.

AMD failed to match the 2080Ti in both performance and features last year with the 5700xt despite the fact that the former released a year prior it's a bit of a stretch to expect them to pull out a 3080 beater as performance goes, the XSX and PS5 are essentially around 5700xt level GPU wise, AMD's main focal point was in the price war they couldn't match them in performance but they could take them on in a competitive bang for buck battle hence why the 5700xt wasn't 2080Ti level but was good enough and $500 cheaper.

This time round how ever the 3070 is above 2080Ti level performance and the same price as the 5700xt that's the card AMD will be contending with when it comes to budget minded consumers as performing above the 2080Ti and being affordable is a problem for AMD especially as they're still playing catch up in features and performance.

By the way I edited my post before I saw your reply. 

Exactly, you want to correlate the relevance of TFlops from the previous gen without realizing that they drop the performance per flop. Even if amd dosent increase the performance per flop its above current nvedia.

The 3090 is probably twice the performance of the 2080ti, but its also 25% more expensive at launch. wich like I have already said before, I dont think AMD will beat it, their goal should be the mass market card and thats the 3080 and 3070.

So what if the 5700xt could not beat the 2080ti? That fits exactly into my argument. They could not, so they dint try. They made a very afordable $400 card that beat nvideas $500 card and got close to their $700 dollar card. This is where the battle ground is.

Bullshit, the 5700xt launched at $400 and its most likely cheaper by now and im still skeptical the 3070 will beat the 2080ti. Looking at the paper specs and the digital foundry comparison of the 3080 and 2080, the 3070 should be a bit below the 2080ti, it will beat it maybe in ray tracing. 

All this was fits exactly into the rumors. IF the rumors stay true for amd they will be head to head with the 3080. 

Edit: My mistake, the 5700xt launched at $450.

What are you on about the 3090 is more than twice the performance it's like 4 times the performance or so the 3080 is twice the performance of the 2080Ti and that's when at 4K 60fps with raytracing and such on.

Your part about AMD flops doesn't even make sense in the context you're trying to argue because Nvidia's TFs have been above AMD's for the longest time in other words better.

In case you didn't realize the part about them not beating the 2080Ti and trying to be cheaper was what was being addressed them trying to be cheaper is what is being put to the test now and something tells me you're a bit out your depth here because 5700xt didn't launch at $400 it was $450 and still is that price I'll link you the UK Amazon listings below.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=5700xt&crid=2QLGVDNBK5C2S&sprefix=5700xt%2Caps%2C149&ref=nb_sb_ss_organic-diversity_1_6

The DF video backed what Nvidia said I honestly don't get what you're attempting to argue using their video as a reference point as it contradicts your stance going by their video 3070 should be at the same level as 2080Ti.

You clearly dint even read the slides it seems, or even bother to see the digital foundry video. They clearly said the 3080 is around 80% the performance of the 2080 in like 5 diferent games. How on earth did you go on to say that its then going to be twice the performance of the 2080ti? Nvedia claimed 2x the performance, digital foundry said 1.8x the performance. This is why I say the 3070 wont be as powerful as a 2080ti. 

Yes nvedia flops have always been better, wich is why I tried to correlate performance between nvideas cards and you brought up amd. But if you compare tflop to tflop from touring to ampere, performance is lost and its what I was arguing from the very begining.

Yes, I saw I was wrong about the price, then I edited and corrected it. But you where wrong also as you claimed it was $500 and are trying to pretend you always said $450. And at the same time not addressing that the $450 dollar 5700xt beat in performance the $500 rtx 2070, not only that it got pretty close to the $700 rtx 2080. I would say for not having hardware based ray tracing, that is very good. 

And no, digital foundry did not backed what nvidea said, they where 20% below and I would argue thats a very big gap to be discarded as marging of error. 

There is no real info on the 3070 real world performance. We have digital foundry comparing the 3080 to the 2080. From there I just calculated from the paper specs. on paper, the 3080 is 33.33% better than a 3070. the comparison digital foundry made demonstrated the 3080 is around 80% better than a 2080. I know its not how it should be done, but we have no other data, but I did a quick rule of 3 to asses the 3070 is 20% better than a 2080. But the problem is that the 2080ti is at least 30% better than a 2080. thats why Im giving it a marging of error and say that they will at most match the 2080ti.