By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming - MS Executive says Devs will need to learn how to work around Slower SSD on XSX

LudicrousSpeed on 14 June 2020

Your error regarding my argument is that you are still not separating real world application of these designs versus what Playstation fans all across the Internets including this forum have been telling us the supposed benefits would be. Again, no one is saying the designs of these consoles aren't a "game changer". Another error is that those two arguments can't coexist, they absolutely can.

Not even mentioning that breaking immersion is subjective. I don't think a 3 second blue effect screen would break immersion compared to a 1-2 second one in the video. He also mentioned traveling to another world in Outer Worlds gave you a load screen that broke immersion, never did for me.



Around the Network
DonFerrari on 14 June 2020
LudicrousSpeed said:
Your error regarding my argument is that you are still not separating real world application of these designs versus what Playstation fans all across the Internets including this forum have been telling us the supposed benefits would be. Again, no one is saying the designs of these consoles aren't a "game changer". Another error is that those two arguments can't coexist, they absolutely can.

Not even mentioning that breaking immersion is subjective. I don't think a 3 second blue effect screen would break immersion compared to a 1-2 second one in the video. He also mentioned traveling to another world in Outer Worlds gave you a load screen that broke immersion, never did for me.

Since most games there didn't show gameplay and you haven't touched them you can't really say much about the real world application not reaching any alleged Playstation fans claims.

You have at most CGI-Quality that already explained to you and some other users in here but was ignored about the SSD really enabling gameplay that wasn't possible before. But even on the explicit case of R&C you try to put it as done before on a case that isn't even remotelly close to similar situation.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

eva01beserk on 14 June 2020
LudicrousSpeed said:
Your error regarding my argument is that you are still not separating real world application of these designs versus what Playstation fans all across the Internets including this forum have been telling us the supposed benefits would be. Again, no one is saying the designs of these consoles aren't a "game changer". Another error is that those two arguments can't coexist, they absolutely can.

Not even mentioning that breaking immersion is subjective. I don't think a 3 second blue effect screen would break immersion compared to a 1-2 second one in the video. He also mentioned traveling to another world in Outer Worlds gave you a load screen that broke immersion, never did for me.

Nope. Its the same as ray tracing. Thats not a feature thats just on or off. There are various degree of implementation and some look vastly better than others and is mainly due to hardware capabilities. The I/O speeds will have similar implementations. So either its disregarded, or if its implemented one will be vastly superior than the other. Just like ray tracing in wich nobody here denies the xsx will have better implementations due to its compute advantage. 

Then you are minimizing the impact to suit your narrative. Up to this point its still dificult to judge what the diference is actually is, since all we can judge is that one can send data at 9gbs and the other at 4.8gbs. We still unaware of the benefits the 12 pcie lanes have over 8. We still dont know what the 6 priority levels have over 2. We still dont know the capabilities of the dedicated decompression chip has on each device. Velocity architecture, kraken, ram reserve. All we know is that the ps5 is beating the xbox in every metric when it comes to data streaming. We also know that the vast majority of devs are drooling over the ps5 I/O and xbox exec are saying that devs will work around it. I myself cant say I know any meaningfull metric, but some "leakers/insiders" saying its over 5-10 times minimun. And thats diferent ones saying a minimum and they all say the minimum is between 5-10x. Could be more. 



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

iron_megalith on 14 June 2020
AsGryffynn said:



iron_megalith said:

Maybe PC should start catching up for once. If true, PS5's architecture is a game changer due to how fast the data can be accessed for loading essential assets. Also, Windows as an operating system has been terrible for a long time due to how inefficient it is. One example of which was when AMD was starting to contest Intel's dominance. When they were rolling out Threadripper and EPYC, Windows was causing issues with utilizing TR and EPYC CPUs due to a bug in its Kernel. The advantages of customized hardware and better efficiency in the Operating System helps a lot. That's why even if Consoles had a weaker hardware, they can perform much more consistently than say an equally spec'd PC during the time it launched.

Now I'm not saying Windows does not have any hurdles that prevent this from happening smoothly. They definitely have to take into account more factors such as the various hardware that could potentially be used. Now if the architecture succeeds and the pipe dream of PS5 ushering in this technology to the PC market, it will be an interesting future since this is very developer friendly. Pair that with what UE5 is offering, alleviating stress to your developers can potentially help them tap into their creative side more which could lead to better quality games.

Seems you are unaware that PC already has SSDs faster than the PS5 one. They are just incredibly expensive. 

I am. But that doesn't change that Consoles are still far more efficient than PCs.



LudicrousSpeed on 14 June 2020
DonFerrari said:

Since most games there didn't show gameplay and you haven't touched them you can't really say much about the real world application not reaching any alleged Playstation fans claims.

Of course I can say, the FUD was just that strong. Even some of the posters in this thread were talking about how Sony was about to showcase how next gen doesn't start until they say it does, etc etc. And what did we get? A showcase of mostly smaller multiplat games with some first party sprinkled in, and you admit there was very little gameplay. AFAIK, could be wrong, haven't spent a ton of time looking up info but the only launch games we got release windows on from Sony is a stand alone small scale expansion game to Spider-Man, and a DualSense demo packed in with every console? Surely sounds like the talk was dead on.


DonFerrari said:

You have at most CGI-Quality that already explained to you and some other users in here but was ignored about the SSD really enabling gameplay that wasn't possible before. But even on the explicit case of R&C you try to put it as done before on a case that isn't even remotelly close to similar situation.

Explained to me, directly? Wow I must have missed it. Bear in mind, I don't read his threads. So if this is what you're referring to, I don't care. Actually I don't care either way, because words on a message board carry less weight than what we see with our eyes. Also the examples I gave are similar situations, even if you want to dismiss them. I never said or implied it was the exact same tech or situation, just simply that jumping between other worlds very quickly has been done for generations.



eva01beserk said:

Nope. Its the same as ray tracing. Thats not a feature thats just on or off. There are various degree of implementation and some look vastly better than others and is mainly due to hardware capabilities. The I/O speeds will have similar implementations. So either its disregarded, or if its implemented one will be vastly superior than the other. Just like ray tracing in wich nobody here denies the xsx will have better implementations due to its compute advantage. 

That's a cool opinion you have, what's also cool is I am free to disagree and you're free to speculate on whatever you want. Why would I disregard the benefits of faster I/O and ditching old school HDD for SSD? Just because I disagree that PS5 has some enormous advantage here that will result in experiences not possible on PC or XSX? Because that's the FUD we have been reading lol

eva01beserk said:

Then you are minimizing the impact to suit your narrative. Up to this point its still dificult to judge what the diference is actually is, since all we can judge is that one can send data at 9gbs and the other at 4.8gbs. We still unaware of the benefits the 12 pcie lanes have over 8. We still dont know what the 6 priority levels have over 2. We still dont know the capabilities of the dedicated decompression chip has on each device. Velocity architecture, kraken, ram reserve. All we know is that the ps5 is beating the xbox in every metric when it comes to data streaming. We also know that the vast majority of devs are drooling over the ps5 I/O and xbox exec are saying that devs will work around it. I myself cant say I know any meaningfull metric, but some "leakers/insiders" saying its over 5-10 times minimun. And thats diferent ones saying a minimum and they all say the minimum is between 5-10x. Could be more. 

I'm reacting to what logic dictates and what reality has shown us. Hope that helps, feel free to bump this in two to three years if this Secret Sauce Drive ever kicks off I guess



Around the Network
DonFerrari on 14 June 2020
LudicrousSpeed said:
DonFerrari said:

Since most games there didn't show gameplay and you haven't touched them you can't really say much about the real world application not reaching any alleged Playstation fans claims.

Of course I can say, the FUD was just that strong. Even some of the posters in this thread were talking about how Sony was about to showcase how next gen doesn't start until they say it does, etc etc. And what did we get? A showcase of mostly smaller multiplat games with some first party sprinkled in, and you admit there was very little gameplay. AFAIK, could be wrong, haven't spent a ton of time looking up info but the only launch games we got release windows on from Sony is a stand alone small scale expansion game to Spider-Man, and a DualSense demo packed in with every console? Surely sounds like the talk was dead on.
And they did, Horizon 2, R&C, RE8, etc weren't smaller multiplat games even if you want to think they didn't show anything next gen. You would be the one spreading FUD and crying wolf on the excitement over the SSD and I/O. And sure a good amount of the titles weren't gameplay, those had like less than 2 min trailers, still we got a good amount of gameplay. But as you said you didn't pay much attention in what was show. There was a post in a thread with the know release dates would take sometime to fetch it, but was something like 3 or 4 titles on launch day and another 5-10 in 2021.

DonFerrari said:

You have at most CGI-Quality that already explained to you and some other users in here but was ignored about the SSD really enabling gameplay that wasn't possible before. But even on the explicit case of R&C you try to put it as done before on a case that isn't even remotelly close to similar situation.

Explained to me, directly? Wow I must have missed it. Bear in mind, I don't read his threads. So if this is what you're referring to, I don't care. Actually I don't care either way, because words on a message board carry less weight than what we see with our eyes. Also the examples I gave are similar situations, even if you want to dismiss them. I never said or implied it was the exact same tech or situation, just simply that jumping between other worlds very quickly has been done for generations.


Not in his threads but on the threads that talked about the GDC reveal for example with a lot of naysayers saying the SSD wouldn't change how games can be played. And you are still in denial over the possibilities.

eva01beserk said:

Nope. Its the same as ray tracing. Thats not a feature thats just on or off. There are various degree of implementation and some look vastly better than others and is mainly due to hardware capabilities. The I/O speeds will have similar implementations. So either its disregarded, or if its implemented one will be vastly superior than the other. Just like ray tracing in wich nobody here denies the xsx will have better implementations due to its compute advantage. 

That's a cool opinion you have, what's also cool is I am free to disagree and you're free to speculate on whatever you want. Why would I disregard the benefits of faster I/O and ditching old school HDD for SSD? Just because I disagree that PS5 has some enormous advantage here that will result in experiences not possible on PC or XSX? Because that's the FUD we have been reading lol

eva01beserk said:

Then you are minimizing the impact to suit your narrative. Up to this point its still dificult to judge what the diference is actually is, since all we can judge is that one can send data at 9gbs and the other at 4.8gbs. We still unaware of the benefits the 12 pcie lanes have over 8. We still dont know what the 6 priority levels have over 2. We still dont know the capabilities of the dedicated decompression chip has on each device. Velocity architecture, kraken, ram reserve. All we know is that the ps5 is beating the xbox in every metric when it comes to data streaming. We also know that the vast majority of devs are drooling over the ps5 I/O and xbox exec are saying that devs will work around it. I myself cant say I know any meaningfull metric, but some "leakers/insiders" saying its over 5-10 times minimun. And thats diferent ones saying a minimum and they all say the minimum is between 5-10x. Could be more. 

I'm reacting to what logic dictates and what reality has shown us. Hope that helps, feel free to bump this in two to three years if this Secret Sauce Drive ever kicks off I guess



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

goopy20 on 14 June 2020
LudicrousSpeed said:
DonFerrari said:

Since most games there didn't show gameplay and you haven't touched them you can't really say much about the real world application not reaching any alleged Playstation fans claims.

Of course I can say, the FUD was just that strong. Even some of the posters in this thread were talking about how Sony was about to showcase how next gen doesn't start until they say it does, etc etc. And what did we get? A showcase of mostly smaller multiplat games with some first party sprinkled in, and you admit there was very little gameplay. AFAIK, could be wrong, haven't spent a ton of time looking up info but the only launch games we got release windows on from Sony is a stand alone small scale expansion game to Spider-Man, and a DualSense demo packed in with every console? Surely sounds like the talk was dead on.


DonFerrari said:

You have at most CGI-Quality that already explained to you and some other users in here but was ignored about the SSD really enabling gameplay that wasn't possible before. But even on the explicit case of R&C you try to put it as done before on a case that isn't even remotelly close to similar situation.

Explained to me, directly? Wow I must have missed it. Bear in mind, I don't read his threads. So if this is what you're referring to, I don't care. Actually I don't care either way, because words on a message board carry less weight than what we see with our eyes. Also the examples I gave are similar situations, even if you want to dismiss them. I never said or implied it was the exact same tech or situation, just simply that jumping between other worlds very quickly has been done for generations.



eva01beserk said:

Nope. Its the same as ray tracing. Thats not a feature thats just on or off. There are various degree of implementation and some look vastly better than others and is mainly due to hardware capabilities. The I/O speeds will have similar implementations. So either its disregarded, or if its implemented one will be vastly superior than the other. Just like ray tracing in wich nobody here denies the xsx will have better implementations due to its compute advantage. 

That's a cool opinion you have, what's also cool is I am free to disagree and you're free to speculate on whatever you want. Why would I disregard the benefits of faster I/O and ditching old school HDD for SSD? Just because I disagree that PS5 has some enormous advantage here that will result in experiences not possible on PC or XSX? Because that's the FUD we have been reading lol

eva01beserk said:

Then you are minimizing the impact to suit your narrative. Up to this point its still dificult to judge what the diference is actually is, since all we can judge is that one can send data at 9gbs and the other at 4.8gbs. We still unaware of the benefits the 12 pcie lanes have over 8. We still dont know what the 6 priority levels have over 2. We still dont know the capabilities of the dedicated decompression chip has on each device. Velocity architecture, kraken, ram reserve. All we know is that the ps5 is beating the xbox in every metric when it comes to data streaming. We also know that the vast majority of devs are drooling over the ps5 I/O and xbox exec are saying that devs will work around it. I myself cant say I know any meaningfull metric, but some "leakers/insiders" saying its over 5-10 times minimun. And thats diferent ones saying a minimum and they all say the minimum is between 5-10x. Could be more. 

I'm reacting to what logic dictates and what reality has shown us. Hope that helps, feel free to bump this in two to three years if this Secret Sauce Drive ever kicks off I guess

Maybe you personally don't agree but the general consensus is that Sony pretty much nailed it with their presentation. Sure, there were a lot of multiplatform titles as well, but at least Sony has given us glimpses of what next gen gaming is really about, seamless gameplay experiences on a much larger scale than we've seen before. When you think about it, isn't the seamless transitions from cut scene to gameplay and epic set piece moments what made games like GOW and Uncharted stand out so much? With ps5 they are simply building on those ideas and are taking it to another level. 

I guess we have to wait and see. But if Sony's SSD tech wouldn't matter that much, why do you think so many developers were asking for it and are creaming their pants over it now? Truth is, Sony is taking a big risk and it would have been a lot easier to go with a more traditional SSD and console design like MS is doing. I'm guessing the ps5 will be pretty expensive because of it, but Sony believes this was the way to move forward. And it kinda looks like they were right.

Last edited by goopy20 - on 14 June 2020

LudicrousSpeed on 14 June 2020

Per usual your post is full of stuff that is irrelevant.

- general consensus doesn’t matter, Sony was getting more praise and hype back when all they had was a logo.

- developers were asking for SSDs, both consoles have them. Again no one is saying SSDs standard isn’t a big deal lol

- exactly what is traditional about the SSX design? IIRC you’ve said this before and was corrected.



DonFerrari on 14 June 2020
LudicrousSpeed said:
Per usual your post is full of stuff that is irrelevant.

- general consensus doesn’t matter, Sony was getting more praise and hype back when all they had was a logo.

- developers were asking for SSDs, both consoles have them. Again no one is saying SSDs standard isn’t a big deal lol

- exactly what is traditional about the SSX design? IIRC you’ve said this before and was corrected.

Not totally right, we have some users saying the SSD won't change much and that HDD would do just fine since PCs will still have them.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

kirby007 on 14 June 2020
DonFerrari said:
LudicrousSpeed said:
Per usual your post is full of stuff that is irrelevant.

- general consensus doesn’t matter, Sony was getting more praise and hype back when all they had was a logo.

- developers were asking for SSDs, both consoles have them. Again no one is saying SSDs standard isn’t a big deal lol

- exactly what is traditional about the SSX design? IIRC you’ve said this before and was corrected.

Not totally right, we have some users saying the SSD won't change much and that HDD would do just fine since PCs will still have them.

do we, link pls?



 "I think people should define the word crap" - Kirby007

Join the Prediction League http://www.vgchartz.com/predictions

Instead of seeking to convince others, we can be open to changing our own minds, and seek out information that contradicts our own steadfast point of view. Maybe it’ll turn out that those who disagree with you actually have a solid grasp of the facts. There’s a slight possibility that, after all, you’re the one who’s wrong.