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Forums - Politics Discussion - What happened in the US? My honest question as a foreigner

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JWeinCom on 31 May 2020
NightlyPoe said:
JWeinCom said:

I'm sure some of them are.

Just some?  Isn't that the type of language that got Trump in trouble?

Look, I think we need to divide those pointing out racial issues and those who revel at violence and destruction into two distinct camp.  Frankly, I doubt there's a single person was moved to rioting over this that would have resisted the urge under any other type of societal breakdown.

I'm not sure what language from Trump you're referring to.

I don't support anyone breaking anything starting fires, or so on.  But, misdirected anger is a thing that does happen in reality.  I don't know enough to speculate about the mental state of those who are violent, and frankly I don't think it's relevant, as their behavior is unacceptable whether motivated by legitimate outrage or just generally being violent.  At any rate, that's really outside the scope of the conversation I was having, which is why this particular killing should motivate more outrage, not violence, than other killings.



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NobleTeam360 on 01 June 2020
thismeintiel said:
This could have been a chance for real reform, but instead of being happy that 99.9% of America was against what happened, you still have people who are just angry no matter what. Or worse, wanting to take advantage of the situation in order to get free shit and burn some buildings down. Even with the looters, we still could have moved past it for real reform, instead you have whackos on the Left making excuses for the looters/rioters. My guess is it's either the bigotry of low expectations or they just love the chaos.

"Real reform" is very unlikely, every time a cop murders an unarmed innocent person, protests happen (largely peaceful) and they get forgotten after a certain period of time. No reform would have happened, this would have just been another cliff note in America's long history of police brutality (heck, even after the current protests and riots I completely expect the same thing, people to forget and nothing changes). 

Oh, this reminds me of something else that largely follows this same pattern, mass shootings, no real reform is passed and people forget about it after a while. 



HollyGamer on 01 June 2020
NobleTeam360 said:
thismeintiel said:
This could have been a chance for real reform, but instead of being happy that 99.9% of America was against what happened, you still have people who are just angry no matter what. Or worse, wanting to take advantage of the situation in order to get free shit and burn some buildings down. Even with the looters, we still could have moved past it for real reform, instead you have whackos on the Left making excuses for the looters/rioters. My guess is it's either the bigotry of low expectations or they just love the chaos.

"Real reform" is very unlikely, every time a cop murders an unarmed innocent person, protests happen (largely peaceful) and they get forgotten after a certain period of time. No reform would have happened, this would have just been another cliff note in America's long history of police brutality (heck, even after the current protests and riots I completely expect the same thing, people to forget and nothing changes). 

Oh, this reminds me of something else that largely follows this same pattern, mass shootings, no real reform is passed and people forget about it after a while. 

The reformation need to happen not just in the law or in government level, but in all US society . Either in cultural level, religion, and the way people lives. American need to changes in every aspect. 



thismeintiel on 01 June 2020
NobleTeam360 said:
thismeintiel said:
This could have been a chance for real reform, but instead of being happy that 99.9% of America was against what happened, you still have people who are just angry no matter what. Or worse, wanting to take advantage of the situation in order to get free shit and burn some buildings down. Even with the looters, we still could have moved past it for real reform, instead you have whackos on the Left making excuses for the looters/rioters. My guess is it's either the bigotry of low expectations or they just love the chaos.

"Real reform" is very unlikely, every time a cop murders an unarmed innocent person, protests happen (largely peaceful) and they get forgotten after a certain period of time. No reform would have happened, this would have just been another cliff note in America's long history of police brutality (heck, even after the current protests and riots I completely expect the same thing, people to forget and nothing changes). 

Oh, this reminds me of something else that largely follows this same pattern, mass shootings, no real reform is passed and people forget about it after a while. 

Except a lot of past cases have been muddy, to say the least. We either get new info or eye witnesses that make people's opinions change/differ.  This was something that the vast majority of Americans agreed on. And just when we're about to come together on the issue, we get these looters/rioters that just split us back apart again. It's not just a coincidence that that happened, either.



 

NobleTeam360 on 01 June 2020
NightlyPoe said:
NobleTeam360 said:

"Real reform" is very unlikely, every time a cop murders an unarmed innocent person, protests happen (largely peaceful) and they get forgotten after a certain period of time. No reform would have happened, this would have just been another cliff note in America's long history of police brutality (heck, even after the current protests and riots I completely expect the same thing, people to forget and nothing changes). 

Oh, this reminds me of something else that largely follows this same pattern, mass shootings, no real reform is passed and people forget about it after a while. 

Reform has been happening all over the place.  From more emphasis on standardizing policing practices and procedures, to more police cameras, to changes in policies like stop and frisk, to changes in hiring policies and internal investigations, to community outreach, and so on.

Stop and frisk should not be allowed at all. We need more reform to get trash cops out of police agencies, no more unions for police departments, officers should not have the ability to self investigate their own officers, remove military equipment from use from officers, no-knock warrants should be illegal, raise education standards to a 4-year degree minimum to be a police officer (this one alone would probably stop a lot of trash from becoming cops in the first place). 

Just a few things that could be done. 

But yeah, it's cool some minor changes have already been implemented like body cams becoming more standard and more standardized policing practices. 



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JWeinCom on 01 June 2020
NobleTeam360 said:
NightlyPoe said:

Reform has been happening all over the place.  From more emphasis on standardizing policing practices and procedures, to more police cameras, to changes in policies like stop and frisk, to changes in hiring policies and internal investigations, to community outreach, and so on.

Stop and frisk should not be allowed at all. We need more reform to get trash cops out of police agencies, no more unions for police departments, officers should not have the ability to self investigate their own officers, remove military equipment from use from officers, no-knock warrants should be illegal, raise education standards to a 4-year degree minimum to be a police officer (this one alone would probably stop a lot of trash from becoming cops in the first place). 

Just a few things that could be done. 

But yeah, it's cool some minor changes have already been implemented like body cams becoming more standard and more standardized policing practices. 

I don't think having a four year degree makes a person any less likely to be trash.  I know plenty of trash with 4 year degrees.  And, since educational attainment is highly correlated with race and family income, you'll wind up with far less diversity on the police force which could exacerbate problems. 



NobleTeam360 on 01 June 2020
JWeinCom said:
NobleTeam360 said:

Stop and frisk should not be allowed at all. We need more reform to get trash cops out of police agencies, no more unions for police departments, officers should not have the ability to self investigate their own officers, remove military equipment from use from officers, no-knock warrants should be illegal, raise education standards to a 4-year degree minimum to be a police officer (this one alone would probably stop a lot of trash from becoming cops in the first place). 

Just a few things that could be done. 

But yeah, it's cool some minor changes have already been implemented like body cams becoming more standard and more standardized policing practices. 

I don't think having a four year degree makes a person any less likely to be trash.  I know plenty of trash with 4 year degrees.  And, since educational attainment is highly correlated with race and family income, you'll wind up with far less diversity on the police force which could exacerbate problems. 

I don't think it would exacerbate the problem, diversity for the sake of diversity isn't something I support anyway. Black people have to build themselves up too, obtaining higher education of some kind (or a trade) or join the military and get that 4-year degree for free. 

But yes, I do agree with your point that just having a four-year degree does not mean you are not a trash person, just an educated trash person. 



Immersiveunreality on 01 June 2020
NightlyPoe said:
JWeinCom said:

Experience has shown that police officers are frequently are not treated in the same way when they commit crimes.  In this case in particular, the officer had been the subject of multiple allegations of police brutality, and was still on the force, and seemingly never subject to discipline.  This time, it just happens to have been caught on videotape. The teacher did nothing over and over again until the teacher was caught not doing anything.  And people, right or wrong, did not believe anything was going to be done this time either.  If nobody was outraged, who knows if he would have been arrested.  We still don't know if he will actual be convicted. This is what people are protesting.  Not that murder is bad, but the policies that put potential murderers in positions of power, don't remove them when they show signs that they are a danger to people, and then don't forcefully prosecute them if and when they are arrested.

May I suggest the people out there starting fires, breaking stuff, and attacking people for being the wrong color don't give a rip about the scenario at all and are just violent people committing violence because they have the opportunity to do so?

I understand your hypothetical.  But, frankly, I don't think it applies.  For the violent, what we have is an excuse, not a cause.

Some years ago during a protest i have witnessed around 30 people going into a shop only because the ownder had a brown skincolour and they destroyed and looted the place in like 3 minutes,even took all the money and the guy looked so devestated to have just lost everything but was also scared as hell.

They did that to all the shops of people that looked like that in the neigbourhood before going to some racefighting between whites and a coloured gang on one of the sideareas,nothing what all the defenders in all of these threads say will make me respect such people.



NobleTeam360 on 01 June 2020
NightlyPoe said:
NobleTeam360 said:

Stop and frisk should not be allowed at all. We need more reform to get trash cops out of police agencies, no more unions for police departments, officers should not have the ability to self investigate their own officers, remove military equipment from use from officers, no-knock warrants should be illegal, raise education standards to a 4-year degree minimum to be a police officer (this one alone would probably stop a lot of trash from becoming cops in the first place). 

Just a few things that could be done. 

But yeah, it's cool some minor changes have already been implemented like body cams becoming more standard and more standardized policing practices. 

Funny, police departments (and other high-risk jobs like fire fighter) are just about the only place where I can justify union jobs for government employees.  Someone's gotta look out for their safety.

I also think the removal of military equipment is unnecessary.  I mean, just check out the last few days.

I don't think it would exacerbate the problem, diversity for the sake of diversity isn't something I support anyway.


And I don't support diversity for diversity sake either.  But when we're talking about race relations, it's kinda important in order to get the community to work with the police department instead of continuing in an adversarial manner.

I disagree, we've had black supreme court justices, black president, black attorney general, black congressmen, black law enforcement officers etc.... and we're still at the same point with police brutality (and other issues). Adding more Black people, Asian people, Hispanic people to authority positions does not help. 



NobleTeam360 on 01 June 2020
NightlyPoe said:
NobleTeam360 said:

I disagree, we've had black supreme court justices, black president, black attorney general, black congressmen, black law enforcement officers etc.... and we're still at the same point with police brutality (and other issues). Adding more Black people, Asian people, Hispanic people to authority positions does not help. 

I'm not talking about authority positions.  I'm talking about relations within a community.  There being an adversarial relationship between the police and the citizenry it protects is not sustainable.  Like it or not, recruiting members from within the area is pretty darn critical in keeping culture clashes to a minimum.

 A lot of these places are often crime-ridden areas, good luck establishing in sort of significant recruitment out of these areas, they've been raised to fear and despise law enforcement and often have criminal records before they even reach 21 years old. Community policing and relations has been a thing for decades, it doesn't work and won't work in the future.