drkohler said:
Let's summarise what M. Cerny revealed, and you won't like it:
There is NOTHING in the PC-world right now that can do what the PS5 does. Absolutely NOTHING. NIENTE. NADA.
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And there is nothing in the Console-world that can leverage RAID SSD's and offer 64-128GB/s. Absolutely NOTHING. NIENTE. NADA.
And you don't seem to like or understand that either, because it means your doesn't have the best of anything?
drkohler said:
Let me explain what you don't seem to grasp: The PS5 can load data at roughly 8-9GBytes/s (theoretical peak over 20GBytes/s) into GPU MEMORY SPACE with GPU CACHE COHERENCY. Just listen again how the "Kraken-Chip" works and what incredible compute power that requires, and you'll hopefully see what you missed the first time.
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No. No and No.
The Playstation 5 SSD offers 5.5GB/s of Real-World sequential read performance, not sequential writes, not random reads/writes, those are the fundamental hardware facts.
That is what the SSD is actually physically capable of in the real world.
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2020-playstation-5-specs-and-tech-that-deliver-sonys-next-gen-vision
From there... Sony leverages compression... Kraken is actually a software compression algorithm which will increase the compression by 10% over the other compression algorithm in the system, sounds like fuck all... But 10% when your throughput is 7GB/s (5.5GB/s+1.5GB/s of compression) is 7.7GB/s.
There is also a decompressor unit in the main SYSTEM SoC and not a separate CHIP, which is also named Kraken, which decompresses that data on the fly which is basically offloading work from the CPU, the PC can do this to... Because the PC isn't limited by only 8x CPU cores @ 3.5ghz.
You will need to provide a citation and/or appropriate accompanying benchmark to substantiate that 20GB/s claim.
drkohler said:
Again: There is absolutely NOTHING in the PC-world that currently does what the PS5 does. (I wonder how MS solved that problem on the XSX).
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If you had bothered to listen to Microsoft, their approach is similar to Sony's, they offloaded compression/decompression to a separate unit on the SoC.
But even when you leverage all this compression, the PC can implement an SSD setup that still beats both approaches with just raw throughput alone... Not to mention additional compression on top if it if you wanted.
Cerebralbore101 said:
Only as powerful as a 2060 Super you say? Do you care if I make a thread based on that, pointing out that you said that? That's worth it's own thread, and you'll either be laughed at or praised in 9 months.
By your logic, Atari Jaguar was just as good as SNES. Not all content is the same, and one fantastic game is worth thousands of awful games.
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Sure. Keep in mind that the 2060 Super can match the RTX 2070 though and in some cases even beat it by a tiny margin.
https://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/2517?vs=2513
And Sony has provided a "best case scenario" with it's clocks, there is the potential that a developer will prioritize CPU tasks at the expense of the GPU, you can't peg both chunks of the silicon and maintain the full 3.5Ghz+2.23Ghz.
There is the potential we could see the GPU limited to something like 2ghz or about 9.2 Teraflops for what it's worth.
Cerebralbore101 said:
By your logic, Atari Jaguar was just as good as SNES. Not all content is the same, and one fantastic game is worth thousands of awful games.
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I would disagree with that of course.
DonFerrari said:
Not really, compressed PS5 can get 9Gb/s worth of data (peak of 20 depending on the case).
The 7Gb/s was Cerny explaining that due to the difference in design between Sony solution and the standard PCI 4.0 design a 7.0Gb/s would likely be needed to reach the 5.5Gb/s on PS5 due to the overhead of the controler on PS5 having to match the lack of the 6 levels of priority.
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The thing with compression is that not all datasets are compressible to the same ratio.
Consoles and PC games have been leveraging various forms of compression for a third of a century now, it's not a new or novel thing, we are actually rather good at it by this point.
The priority levels are there to prioritize certain pieces of data for decompression and memory transfers, some forms of data are more important than others, it's a fantastic feature, but not really relevant when the PC has more Ram and can just dump everything into it.
taus90 said:
technically 5700xt is 9.7tf RDNA1 which is on par with 2070 super. so considering that PS5 is 9.2tf of RDNA 2 it should easily put PS5 above 2070 Super.
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RDNA 2 should bring with it a plethora of efficiency gains as well, the extent of which is a big unknown, but AMD is pegging a performance/efficiency increase of 50%.
Salt and all that until we see benchmarks though.
Intrinsic said:
Wait...he actually said the XSX is only like 2060 performance? I didn't even read that. It was benchmarked against a 2080 paired with a 16core CPU and 64GB of ram and had equivalent performance while running a two-week-old unoptimized code.
Both the PS5 and XSX are in 2080 GPU territory and that's before specific optimizations are kicked in. Simple as that.
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The Xbox One X has the GPU edge no doubt, it has the bandwidth, it has the functional units and will take the fight to the RTX 2080.
The Playstation 5 is a step down from the Xbox and falls into the Geforce RTX 2060 Super/RTX 2070 territory which is a step down from the RTX 2080.
This is just the raw performance from the details we have currently, obviously we don't know all the details on the next gen hardware to actually make a 100% accurate comparison.
Intrinsic said:
Yes and no... technically we are kinda saying the same thing.
The PS5 SSD has a physical throughput of 5.5GB/s (lets call it a gate). However, based on the Kracken compressor thingy and thanks to its specific decompression chip, it can send up to 20GB/s+ equivalent worth of data (depending on how well compressed that data is) through that 5.5GB/s gate. And this is not something that can be done in PCs because they don't have specific hardware for data decompression and even more so designed for a very specific type of decompression codec.
the 8-9GB/s Cerny used in is examples just to illustrate this pint and assuming current industry-standard LZ (something) compression is used and not the Kraken compression which is significantly better and which their specific silicon for compression is better suited to handle.
Everything else abt the off the help SDs though is accurate and I fully agree with.
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You can do it on the PC, it requires CPU or GPU cycles to pull off, where-as the console use specific co-processors to offload the task.
The PC also has compression/decompression standards as well.
For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DriveSpace#Overview
Intrinsic said:
And yet the PS5 is not even 9.2TF of RDNA2. Its 10.3TF. And yes, it easily would be above 2070 super. More like 2080 if its actual feature set is being used.
Jut like how I expect the XSX to be more like 2080 super If its feature set is actually being used as opposed to just running a quick unoptimized port.
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There are going to be instances where the Playstation 5 cannot maintain it's full clockrate due to TDP limitations, anyone who has used and extensively tested how the power relationship between the CPU and GPU portions of the APU will understand what I mean.
JRPGfan said:
DonFerrari said:
My phone have more RAM than PS5, won't touch this bad console =p
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Theres phones that have more than 8 GB of ram? jeez....
I know theres ones with 8 GB, though Im not sure I've heard of ones with 16GB or more.
*edit: why would you even put that much ram into a phone? like phones are for calling, light browseing, and reading ebooks or listening to music.
Something tells me those phones arnt exactly cheap if their sporting that much ram.
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https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_s20_ultra_5g-10040.php
The Samsung Galaxy S20 Ultra has 16GB of Ram. My "old" Galaxy Note 10+ has 12GB.
And there are lots of reasons... Caching of the phones "SSD", Multi-tasking, Reducing memory transfers can save on power... And more.
Mid-Range phones these days are around 8GB and starting to trend towards 12GB at the moment.
HoloDust said:
I think he mixed up RAM with internal storage...only phone that has 16GB is Xiaomi Black Shark 3, a gaming phone, though there are several models with 12GB.
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See above.
