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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - MS: 1st party Xbox games will be cross-gen for "next year, two years"

goopy20 on 18 February 2020
chakkra said:
goopy20 said:

Of course, Sony can make full use of the ps5 at launch, that's whole point of developing for a closed platform. If it will be their best games, we don't know. We just have to wait for the ps5 reveal too see what their 1st party studios been working on for years now.

And yes "plus-plus-plus" is nice. I also own a ps4 pro and I think the HDR, higher res and fps was worth the upgrade. But it still plays the exact same games as the base ps4 and I can totally understand that only a small minority felt the need to upgrade to a mid-gen console. 

Okay, let me see if I understand this. You found found a reason to purchase a PS4 pro, which is 2.5x more powerful than the base PS4, to play the same games with some enhancements. Yet, you say that X1 owners don't have a reason to upgrade to Series X (which is supposed to be 8x more powerful than base X1)  Ehh.. I'm kinda lost here.

Well yeah, for me it was worth it. I bought a LG Oled recently and I'm glad we have this mid-gen options for those who want that little bit of extra. But they are niche products. I mean I don't know how many X1X's or ps4 pro's were sold, but I'm guessing it's only a fraction of the base console install base. So while I'm perfectly happy with my ps4 pro, I can also understand that the bump in resolution/fps wasn't enough reason to upgrade for the vast majority. 



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LudicrousSpeed on 18 February 2020
goopy20 said:
LudicrousSpeed said:

No he isn’t. Instead of bolding one sentence in a long interview and taking it out of context and twisting it into something it isn’t actually saying, try to read the whole interview. You’d have to be going in reading that interview with your mind made up about your zany theory for you to come away thinking MS isn’t going to take advantage of XSX hardware. I mean, how much clearer does The Xboss have to be for you to understand? He’s said hardware is the most important aspect of the business. They gave us the Scorpio. They’re giving us the Series X. He’s sitting right here in this interview you’re pulling quotes from saying they want to take advantage of the hardware of XSX and that devs do too.

Outside of your obvious bias, I think all of this just boils down to you not understanding how games are made. You’ve already tried to say that Cyberpunk will be drastically altered and content cut just because current gen consoles supposedly struggle with it. You’ve been shown that even Sony had a metric fuckton of cross gen content and were still fine. Nothing is going to make you see reason. You’re going to sit with your tin foil hat repeating your crazy theories no matter how much sense we try to talk into you 🤷🏻‍♂️

I'm not making this up man. This quote comes from a podcast where he's talking about their next gen strategy, which is "putting the player in the center, not the devices." They're all about finding new gamers and tapping into the 4 billion gamers that play on a ton of different devices. And yes, the games will scale up to high-end devices like Series X or high-end pc, but that's not the same as building exclusives that really push the next-gen tech. That's more like playing on XB1X, ps4 pro or pc, which obviously does look a bit better but developers will always be limited in what they can do with the hardware because they don't want to alienate the base ps4/Xone gamers where 95% of the sales are coming from. But hey, if you think I'm making it up listen to it yourself (7 - 11m mark) https://audioboom.com/posts/7496771-interview-with-phil-spencer-about-the-past-present-future-of-xbox

He's saying there will be trade offs in developing games as he isn't going to dictate what developers will support. This is normal and we will will obviously see a ton of cross-gen 3rd party games the first year or two. But they do have a say in what their own 1st party developers are focusing on and that's obviously not high-end pc's or the Series X. Hence, the whole "all games will be cross-gen" statement. What this all means is that Sony will be the only one pushing next gen tech with their exclusives and those games will simply allow developers to do things that weren't possible on current gen. If that will make them better games remains to be seen. At worst they will be glorified tech-demo's with poor ratings, but they will still get people excited for the next gen.

Never said you were making the quote up. But you are twisting it into something it wasn't, to fit your zany theory :)

Like I said before, it just boils down to you being ignorant as to how game engines and design works. I guess we can throw in a lack of understanding about cloud gaming and streaming, since you apparently think MS will have to scale back games so they can run on "billions" of phones and other devices, when in reality MS wants to reach those people with xCloud, meaning they can make whatever they want and it will just stream to these devices.

I mean I can just point to the Flight Simulator game MS is making right now. It's being designed with powerful PC's in mind and will be scaled back heavily for Xbox One, and devs have said a console version would most likely be missing elements. By your logic they should be building it for the iPhone 6 and scaling up LOL



goopy20 on 18 February 2020
LudicrousSpeed said:
goopy20 said:

I'm not making this up man. This quote comes from a podcast where he's talking about their next gen strategy, which is "putting the player in the center, not the devices." They're all about finding new gamers and tapping into the 4 billion gamers that play on a ton of different devices. And yes, the games will scale up to high-end devices like Series X or high-end pc, but that's not the same as building exclusives that really push the next-gen tech. That's more like playing on XB1X, ps4 pro or pc, which obviously does look a bit better but developers will always be limited in what they can do with the hardware because they don't want to alienate the base ps4/Xone gamers where 95% of the sales are coming from. But hey, if you think I'm making it up listen to it yourself (7 - 11m mark) https://audioboom.com/posts/7496771-interview-with-phil-spencer-about-the-past-present-future-of-xbox

He's saying there will be trade offs in developing games as he isn't going to dictate what developers will support. This is normal and we will will obviously see a ton of cross-gen 3rd party games the first year or two. But they do have a say in what their own 1st party developers are focusing on and that's obviously not high-end pc's or the Series X. Hence, the whole "all games will be cross-gen" statement. What this all means is that Sony will be the only one pushing next gen tech with their exclusives and those games will simply allow developers to do things that weren't possible on current gen. If that will make them better games remains to be seen. At worst they will be glorified tech-demo's with poor ratings, but they will still get people excited for the next gen.

Never said you were making the quote up. But you are twisting it into something it wasn't, to fit your zany theory :)

Like I said before, it just boils down to you being ignorant as to how game engines and design works. I guess we can throw in a lack of understanding about cloud gaming and streaming, since you apparently think MS will have to scale back games so they can run on "billions" of phones and other devices, when in reality MS wants to reach those people with xCloud, meaning they can make whatever they want and it will just stream to these devices.

I mean I can just point to the Flight Simulator game MS is making right now. It's being designed with powerful PC's in mind and will be scaled back heavily for Xbox One, and devs have said a console version would most likely be missing elements. By your logic they should be building it for the iPhone 6 and scaling up LOL

There's little point arguing when we both seem to have different expectations for next gen games. For you it's the same games we are playing now with a bump in graphics settings and higher res. For me it's simply something more and same goes for the 100m+ Xone/ps4 owners who didn't think a mid-gen console was worth the upgrade. And yes, he is referring to the Xcloud when it comes to reaching mobile devices, but that's their long term goal. For the foreseeable future they're goal is to reach a broader audience by building all their exclusives so they can be played on main stream pc and Xone, very likely by targeting those specs as the base platform. 

We will see how this all plays out. All I know is that it'll be interesting to see how a ps5 exclusive, like that rumoured new sci-fi game from ND, stacks up against an upscaled Gears 6 or Halo Infinite on the Series X. 



LudicrousSpeed on 18 February 2020

That’s funny because earlier in the thread you said Infamous SS was a “true next gen game” because it had great graphics and special effects and even admitted that design wise it didn’t do anything new. So no, we don’t have different expectations for next gen games, you’re just selective on when that term applies. And apparently the only qualifier is what console it appears on.

Nothing new design wise but next gen visuals? Not a next gen game. Oh wait it’s a PS4 game? True next gen confirmed. We hear you buddy.



goopy20 on 18 February 2020
LudicrousSpeed said:
That’s funny because earlier in the thread you said Infamous SS was a “true next gen game” because it had great graphics and special effects and even admitted that design wise it didn’t do anything new. So no, we don’t have different expectations for next gen games, you’re just selective on when that term applies. And apparently the only qualifier is what console it appears on.

Nothing new design wise but next gen visuals? Not a next gen game. Oh wait it’s a PS4 game? True next gen confirmed. We hear you buddy.

Not this again lol... But Yes, Infamous SS was a true next gen game and DF even called it a "next-gen masterclass". Here's what they said said about it at the time. 

"Open-world games have become increasingly popular over the course of the last decade, but it had become clear that many games were simply being limited by outdated hardware. Second Son deftly illustrates the benefits of moving to a new console platform by eliminating so many of the problems that have plagued the genre on older consoles. With such a solid foundation to build from, the potential for new inFamous sequel is mouthwatering.

While Second Son doesn't hit every mark, we can't ignore the fact that Sucker Punch was able to deliver such a polished, technically accomplished title so early in the life cycle of PlayStation 4. Even with its faults, it feels like the type of game one might expect only after a solid year or two as opposed to just a few months into the system's lifecycle. Such an effort certainly reserves a spot for Sucker Punch around the table of upper tier of internal studios and with the bar set so high so early, we can't wait to see what Sony's Worldwide Studios come up with next."

So yeah, while the gameplay didn't quite match the tech behind the game, it was still a huge leap over what we seen before. Now, maybe you're right and we will get a bunch of games that are glorified tech demos on the ps5. But it can also be that they are actually good games, especially if you look how Sony's been hitting it out of the park with their exclusives this gen. We don't know anything for sure, except that MS isn't even trying to make a game that removes the shackles of current gen hardware.



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sales2099 on 18 February 2020
goopy20 said:
LudicrousSpeed said:
That’s funny because earlier in the thread you said Infamous SS was a “true next gen game” because it had great graphics and special effects and even admitted that design wise it didn’t do anything new. So no, we don’t have different expectations for next gen games, you’re just selective on when that term applies. And apparently the only qualifier is what console it appears on.

Nothing new design wise but next gen visuals? Not a next gen game. Oh wait it’s a PS4 game? True next gen confirmed. We hear you buddy.

Not this again lol... But Yes, Infamous SS was a true next gen game and DF even called it a "next-gen masterclass". Here's what they said said about it at the time. 

"Open-world games have become increasingly popular over the course of the last decade, but it had become clear that many games were simply being limited by outdated hardware. Second Son deftly illustrates the benefits of moving to a new console platform by eliminating so many of the problems that have plagued the genre on older consoles. With such a solid foundation to build from, the potential for new inFamous sequel is mouthwatering.

While Second Son doesn't hit every mark, we can't ignore the fact that Sucker Punch was able to deliver such a polished, technically accomplished title so early in the life cycle of PlayStation 4. Even with its faults, it feels like the type of game one might expect only after a solid year or two as opposed to just a few months into the system's lifecycle. Such an effort certainly reserves a spot for Sucker Punch around the table of upper tier of internal studios and with the bar set so high so early, we can't wait to see what Sony's Worldwide Studios come up with next."

So yeah, while the gameplay didn't quite match the tech behind the game, it was still a huge leap over what we seen before. Now, maybe you're right and we will get a bunch of games that are glorified tech demos on the ps5. But it can also be that they are actually good games, especially if you look how Sony's been hitting it out of the park with their exclusives this gen. We don't know anything for sure, except that MS isn't even trying to make a game that removes the shackles of current gen hardware.

Not even trying....trying. It’s all irrelevant because you or anybody has yet to provide an example of launch games getting the most potential of the system. 

Unless you show me that Last of Us was possible to make in November 2006 launch PS3 your argument is null and void.

Neither company will make full potential, at least MS is focusing on quality control and making their ecosystem happy with choice. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

LudicrousSpeed on 18 February 2020
goopy20 said:
LudicrousSpeed said:
That’s funny because earlier in the thread you said Infamous SS was a “true next gen game” because it had great graphics and special effects and even admitted that design wise it didn’t do anything new. So no, we don’t have different expectations for next gen games, you’re just selective on when that term applies. And apparently the only qualifier is what console it appears on.

Nothing new design wise but next gen visuals? Not a next gen game. Oh wait it’s a PS4 game? True next gen confirmed. We hear you buddy.

Not this again lol... But Yes, Infamous SS was a true next gen game and DF even called it a "next-gen masterclass". Here's what they said said about it at the time. 

"Open-world games have become increasingly popular over the course of the last decade, but it had become clear that many games were simply being limited by outdated hardware. Second Son deftly illustrates the benefits of moving to a new console platform by eliminating so many of the problems that have plagued the genre on older consoles. With such a solid foundation to build from, the potential for new inFamous sequel is mouthwatering.

While Second Son doesn't hit every mark, we can't ignore the fact that Sucker Punch was able to deliver such a polished, technically accomplished title so early in the life cycle of PlayStation 4. Even with its faults, it feels like the type of game one might expect only after a solid year or two as opposed to just a few months into the system's lifecycle. Such an effort certainly reserves a spot for Sucker Punch around the table of upper tier of internal studios and with the bar set so high so early, we can't wait to see what Sony's Worldwide Studios come up with next."

So yeah, while the gameplay didn't quite match the tech behind the game, it was still a huge leap over what we seen before. Now, maybe you're right and we will get a bunch of games that are glorified tech demos on the ps5. But it can also be that they are actually good games, especially if you look how Sony's been hitting it out of the park with their exclusives this gen. We don't know anything for sure, except that MS isn't even trying to make a game that removes the shackles of current gen hardware.

A couple of things here. Most importantly, why are you now referencing DF? You yourself said Infamous from a design stand point didn’t really set itself apart from the previous gen. Now you’re trying to shoehorn a DF article into it. Kind of like you began this thread trying to argue that MS wouldn’t have “true next gen” games on XSX for 3-5 years even though they said one year max and when everyone corrected you you’re now going on about MS ambition and focus and ideology and other unsubstantiated nonsense so that you can try to convince us that MS is literally abandoning high powered video games. Just as they’re releasing a high powered console, of course.

Secondly, did you even read the DF article you’re quoting? The title of it literally says “next gen looks, last gen thinking”. It goes on multiple times to talk about how outside of visuals, the game hasn’t evolved from a previous gen open world title. The exact same thing you’re complaining that Xbox games are supposedly going to have happening. Hey you were not only content with Infamous but you considered it a “true next gen title”. 

Your own DF reference proves me right and showcases your bias and double standard.



chakkra on 18 February 2020
CGI-Quality said:

As I said earlier, a company can take as much advantage of a platform they created as possible. They know the ins and outs better than anyone. Whether they CHOOSE to or not is another matter. Of course they don’t want to show their entire hand out the gate.

It’s a matter of strategic desire, not capability.

On the other hand, history has shown us that no developer has ever been able to take full advantage of a console's potential in the first year. Unless you want to tell me that Killzone, Infamous and Knack look as good as GoW.

So no, I don't think it is a matter of choosing. It is a matter of learning over time.

Edit: And yes, I know these are not the same developers, but some developers have actually LITERALLY said that they do learn over time how to take the best advantage of technology, sometimes even using the same engine.

Last edited by chakkra - on 18 February 2020

chakkra on 18 February 2020
goopy20 said:
chakkra said:

Okay, let me see if I understand this. You found found a reason to purchase a PS4 pro, which is 2.5x more powerful than the base PS4, to play the same games with some enhancements. Yet, you say that X1 owners don't have a reason to upgrade to Series X (which is supposed to be 8x more powerful than base X1)  Ehh.. I'm kinda lost here.

Well yeah, for me it was worth it. I bought a LG Oled recently and I'm glad we have this mid-gen options for those who want that little bit of extra. But they are niche products. I mean I don't know how many X1X's or ps4 pro's were sold, but I'm guessing it's only a fraction of the base console install base. So while I'm perfectly happy with my ps4 pro, I can also understand that the bump in resolution/fps wasn't enough reason to upgrade for the vast majority. 

I think we can both agree that 8x more power is a tad more enticing than 2.5x more power. I mean, what do you really think it will happen when X1 players face themselves with the options to play Halo 6, NextCOD and GTA6 at 720p with lower settings against 4K with higher settings?

Heck, just for the sake of argument let's pretend for a second that Sony is following the same strategy as MS; do you really believe that base PS4 players will be content with playing NextCOD and GTA6 at 900p with lower settings instead of 4K with higher settings?



sales2099 on 18 February 2020
CGI-Quality said:

As I said earlier, a company can take as much advantage of a platform they created as possible. They know the ins and outs better than anyone. Whether they CHOOSE to or not is another matter. Of course they don’t want to show their entire hand out the gate.

It’s a matter of strategic desire, not capability.

I’m sure your right. Both companies have a different strategy and vision. Point being though you can’t rip on one side when ultimately both companies roadmap leads to the same conclusion: neither launch titles will get the most of the hardware. For one reason or another. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles.