Again, we are speaking about how gender and sex work together to bring to mind the attributes associated with femaleness. If you were to remove clothing from the discussion, you would simply be limiting the discussion, not finding any deeper meaning or truth as you seem to be attempting to do. Stay focused on the conversation here.

I will say that the fact that you seem to have embraced this really strange and specific line of questioning implies to me that you lack any actual substantive issues with the distinction between gender and sex as previously outlined. If you disagree with this assertion, I would love to hear those substantive issues.

"If you were to remove clothing from the discussion, you would simply be limiting the discussion"

I understand your argument in that presentation helps to further emphasize the differences between men and women but I don't think its an integral part of femininity or femaleness or whatever

On a nudist colony presentation doesn't exist and the women there i'm sure are still a distinct group apart from men

"you lack any actual substantive issues with the distinction between gender and sex as previously outlined."

I never said that I did, my issue has always been with the idea that there is no connection between gender and sex(maybe I have made the mistake of lumping you in with other people who have been making that assertion, when really you disagree with that position, if so then I do apologise) and that a man becomes a woman if he identifies as one

you apparently hold the same position since you are now trying to emphasize the role sex differences play

but maybe you'll surprise me with a different conclusion

Let me start off by asking this.  How exactly do you imagine that working?  

Do you think it could be trendy to be transgender?  Do you think it could be trendy for people to become a specific gender?  

>gender is a social construct

Perhaps this will clear some things up.  I have no idea if this explanation will help, or if it will confuse things more.  

Gender is a social construct, because gender is the expectations that society has on someone for being male/female.  

Society's expectation's for how men/women look/act.

Here is what I thought was an interesting reading about biological sex:

So. Hi new people! Apparently, we're gonna talk about sex. Like physical sex! Because... there's some confusion.

First, sex defined: We're talking physical sex here, not gender. Body parts, hormones, and genetics (and more).

BLUF: BIOLOGICAL sex is a spectrum

1/

— ScienceVet (@ScienceVet2) August 30, 2018

So we have this mismatch, between sex and gender.  Where there's a range with biological sex, and yet with gender society has tended to put things into two very large bins.  

Why some people are transgender isn't exactly known.  There are all kinds of things that affect the brain, it might be their body naturally produces more of the opposite sex hormones.  Their brain might have developed a certain way due to their genetics.  

But their personal identity, comes down to their brain.  It isn't solely driven by social construction.  In other words, your entire identity isn't solely driven by socialogical factors.  Humans are very complicated, and you can find all kinds of studies that show that pretty much every aspect about humans is some massively complicated relationship between biological and sociological forces.  

Transgenderism occurs when someone's personal identity either doesn't match their biological sex or their socially constructed gender.

It doesn't make sense to assume though that transgenderism could occur due to trendiness, because their personal identities have to do with other factors beyond being solely socially constructed.  

And how many of those people were manipulated into changing genders?  

>people who have regretted their transition and claim otherwise exist, but not for you apparently

I've literally never said that.  I've even explained why this can happen.

Some people find that transitioning doesn't make relieve them of their dysphoria.  Instead they deal with the social anxieties on top of their dysphoria.  

Here's someone talking about some of that:  https://slate.com/human-interest/2019/01/gender-dysphoria-treatment-transition-process.html

You seem to continuously think that people that are transgender are being forced or manipulated into it.  Which can theoretically happen, but there is zero evidence of it being anything close to a norm.  And it certainly isn't something that the average person would ever support.  

Unfortunately you don't seem to understand my argument because that wasn't my argument...

ffs

I am not talking about individual presentation. I've said several times including the post you just quoted that I am not talking about the individual, I am talking about the attributes of the idea.

And again, I don't think people are trying to assert that there is no relationship whatsoever between gender and sex. I believe that is you misunderstanding something (again). That said, if there are individuals trying to assert that, that is in no way the standard or mainstream of "the left". Your ability to understand concepts related to transgendered individuals rivals that of a gnat's ability to understand concepts related to quantum mechanics. It is more than a touch lacking.

If it's so simple, what about people with both?

It's hardly "full" of people saying that. 

So what about the people who feel better after transitioning?

>why do you refuse to acknowledge them?

On the contrary, I have said that it is possible, but it doesn't make any sense to me why it would be any kind of norm.  

Additionally I have said that such things would be abuse.  

Why do you continue to ignore things that have been said?  

Transgender people are exceptions.  
You keep talking about transgender people as if they are a social trend affecting 40% of the population.  

They make up less than 1% of the population.  

If you have a Dick you are a boy, If you have a Pussy you are a girl. Its pretty simple really. If you are born with a  dick and have it removed you are still a man but with female genitalia. Same goes for people born as a woman and changing to a man. If you require synthetic hormones to change any part of your appearance, voice etc. than you are the opposite of what those hormones are making you. This liberal push to make people think they are something besides what they are born is literally the loons running the asylum. 

you should tell him the proper way to make the distinction

how do you distinguish between men and women?

"Again, lack of knowledge that these are separate but integrated concepts shows that you (and he) are ignorant on the subject as a whole."

you have a point 

ok lets use some examples here

"Are you asking in terms of reproductive function?":                                                      

"Are you asking in terms of expression?":

one of these is clearly someone who was born female and the other is a male wearing a dress, according to what you've said these are both women correct? how do you differentiate between them since you consider both to be women?

And what if you were born with a penis and a vagina? Or an "appendage" which doesn't fit your descriptors?

But you are confusing sex and gender... And people can and will fall outside of stereotypical labeling.

How do you? Do you look at someone and judge their outward physical appearance and come to a conclusion? Or do you check their genitalia?

Again. You are confused.

You can be male, you can wear a dress, you can be straight. - It happens often... They are commonly referred to as a "Cross Dresser".
They aren't trans, they don't identify as anything else except their born gender.