Look, I said what I said. I'm not trying to get into a debate on the subject. As a trans individual I just felt the need to clarify things, especially for you.

I will say that it isn't something you can just simply say "oh, I'm a women now" it takes years of coming to terms with it and even longer coming out and if you choose to transition even longer. It's not a simple thing, it isn't a trend, it's who you are. If this hypothetical person you created existed and if she is a transwoman, she would've gone through at least half of what I've said and then it would mean she's always been a transwoman, she's just now coming out. But if she just continues on living as a man until her death though then she never was trans. Coming out as trans means you can be your authentic self, if she was already her authentic self as a man she never was trans. There are "manly" men that are trans and come out and live as trans individuals. It has nothing to do with penis size btw you can be a man without a penis and you can be a man with an average penis, that doesn't define "manhood." Idk why you're focused on the penis???

"If this hypothetical person you created existed and if she is a transwoman, she would've gone through at least half of what I've said"

"You can be trans and not transition. Moreover, you can be trans and not want to transition."

isn't that what I have described here?

"therefore, if I was a man with a 10 inch penis, full beard, 6 foot 3, buff from hitting the gym all the time, this means that I become a woman in your view if I simply say I feel like one inside"

you are essentially just saying that all that matters in terms of whether the person is a woman or man is what they feel inside and that's ok, that's your perspective, i'm just trying to understand it

"But if she just continues on living as a man"

which means what? how do you ascertain whether someone is living as a man or as a woman outside of their self declaration that they are living as what they are? what they look like?

"It has nothing to do with penis size btw you can be a man without a penis and you can be a man with an average penis, that doesn't define "manhood."

of course, because biology doesn't matter, what matters is "identity"

"For regular day to day life there isn't any kind of need for such a distinction.  "

ok

"I see you assuming what I'll do... "

because you've done it several times before but I'm glad to see that you've made the plunge now

"I'll gladly call you a woman.  I personally don't care even if you were lying, because some random person's gender doesn't affect me.  

Either you're being sincere, and it's important to you.

Or you're lying and it makes no impact on me."

well that's good, you at least appear to authentically accept that biology has no bearing on whether a person is a man or a woman

so in your opinion this guy broke the women's weightlifting record?

https://twitter.com/zubymusic/status/1100348562041462784?lang=en

"Now, who's deflecting? "

this is like me asking if you know how much poop an elephant can expel in one sitting and expecting you to treat that like its a part of the flow of the conversation

the fact that women can be muscular has no bearing on me asking if all that matters is identity

"I'm just wondering why you'd think it's relevant."

because I actually think biology which means the physical reality of the structure of bodies plays a role in whether a person is male or female, i don't think that simply because exceptions exist then that means that categories must be discarded with

whether you guys understand it or not that is the position you are taking, I understand that the idea is to be inclusive, but if there is no limit to it then obviously all you're doing is discarding the categories

now you'll argue that this is not the case, but you have discarded all boundaries when it comes to physical classification of male and female which is absurd

and in addition to that biology and again this means the physical reality of the structure of bodies then has a role to play in gender

"You sure you don't have me confused with someone else?"

its possible

"For the people that do, they might care, because the person isn't being sincere.  "

how do you assess sincerity when it comes to declarations like this?

"the fact that women can be muscular has no bearing on me asking if all that matters is identity

Except you don't seem to believe that if.  "

believe that what?

"The reason I was asking, is because you seem to have intentionally chosen a description of features that tend to be considered manly.  Which is problematic for you argument, because it would suggest that there's some kind of manliness scale (in other words that either gender or sex are nonbinary)"

some men are more apparent than others because their features more prominently display sexual dimorphism

no one that is arguing that males and females actually exist is arguing that there's no variation, just that ultimately because of the collective characteristics of around 99.9999% of the two groups we can easily establish that there are two categories

" Even if it did mean that, why would that matter?  We don't have categories for a lot of things. "

are you a feminist? do you believe women need greater assistance than men from society?

"And it doesn't mean that.  It just means the categories are more flexible."

what boundaries are using to maintain the categories?

"Just because you don't understand the nuance"

you are literally telling me that biology is so messy that a woman can have a penis, a full beard etc etc etc

so with that being said what are you actually using to maintain the distinction between male and female?

it sounds to me like you have nothing and that's why I'm here to see if my assumption is correct or not

Who gives a shit about the distinction?

If someone identifies as a man, call them a man.
If someone identifies as a woman, call them a woman.

It's not actually hard... And you get to be respectful towards other human beings while you are at it.

Whatever reproductive organ/s they posses is ultimate not yours, mine or anyone elses damn business.

"Who gives a shit about the distinction? "

I do, which is why I'm asking the question

"If someone identifies as a man, call them a man.
If someone identifies as a woman, call them a woman."

good I was just trying to clarify that this ideology is completely dismissing biology, sundin was trying desperately to argue otherwise like a page ago

I'm glad that we've finally dispelled with the smoke and mirrors and we are out in the open with what's actually happening

"It's not actually hard... And you get to be respectful towards other human beings while you are at it."

I don't play along with the bullshit religious people spew what makes this any different?

I've seen you be highly critical of religious people, why is it ok for you to be disrespectful towards their beliefs but when it comes to this other brand of bullshit you demand that other people subjugate themselves to it?

"Whatever reproductive organ/s they posses is ultimate not yours, mine or anyone elses damn business."

whatever loony toons nonsense is going on in their mind isn't my business either

"He falsely identified himself for the sole purpose of claiming to achieve a feet. "

falsely? since when did you become charles xavier?

"So who is best fit to decide someone’s sex, and thereby assume their gender identity? Is it society, a doctor, or the individual themselves?"

ok ok lets say he didn't reveal that he was fucking around, you would have been forced to go along with his bullshit wouldn't you?

"This proves you have failed to grasp that psychology plays an important role in gender."

not if you are relying on self-declaration

"This is the same flawed proclamation that you can identify as a cat or dog. We do not have the psychological function of a cat or dog and therefore cannot identify as one."

so the people who have are just crazy?

men have a different psychological profile to women btw

"By the way, I found it exceptionally amusing that you were arguing with an actual transgender person about transgender issues."

yeah I was punching down from my privileged position down onto a margarinised victim... that's how the spiel goes right?

"Traits don't guarantee someone being of a certain biological sex."

"There are women who naturally grow more hair on their face than some men."

ok ok so therefore the categories don't exist because of the 0.0001%

with those odds I better give up driving since there's the minuscule chance i'll be decapitated

"you would've seen that its actually a lot harder than you think to establish there are two categories.  "

look i'd appreciate it if you guys didn't pretend as if I don't understand this nonsense... just a couple pages ago people were still trying to argue that this isn't about denying biology

a little humility on your side would go a long way

"are you a feminist?

Yes."

what? how?

"The reality is, you get the same result by treating people equally regardless of what category they exist in or don't."

do you really believe that? what are you going to do for example about women's passivity with regards to taking on the harder physical aspects of keeping society running?

I sincerely don't understand how a grown person can believe this kind of stuff, we don't treat each other equally to some extent because of factors which can be controlled but a lot of it is subconscious and driven by factors out of our control

what are you going to do about the preferential treatment attractive people get? what about those with special skills? celebrities? inherent in group bias women have towards other women? women's fear of men because men are larger on average? I could keep going on all day with this

this utopian idea that we can just get people to police their behavior entirely rationally is a joke dude, its becoming really popular in the left but its unbelievably delusional

"but it isn't really possible to have distinct unambiguous boundaries that capture every single individual. "

it doesn't have to capture every individual, categories always have exceptions... we went through this already

so we just pretend that males and females don't exist because of the 0.0001% of exceptions... ok 

"He basically admitted he was temporarily "identifying" as a women"

yes and he didn't have to

"Imagine being born with the psychological profile of the other gender?"

by psychological profile I'm talking about neuroticism, conscientiousness etc etc etc

not "I have a penis but I really should have a vagina"

"More along the lines of telling someone who feels a certain way that they can't feel that way."

I've never made that argument just "why should I care about how you feel"

the same thing I'd tell a religious person "I feel you are going to hell you better repent!!!!"... yeah fuck that