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Forums - Gaming Discussion - MS reveal of ballpark of Scarlett

Ganoncrotch said:

soooooo......

the original xbox gives us the base name Xbox... the 360 gives us the circle or ring, the current sales of the X1 give the name death and now the Scarlett gives us the colour Red.... Over 4 Generations Microsoft have stealth trolled everyone by naming or designing their projects as the Xbox red ring of death!

Sorry for my 4am brain popping this out but it made me chuckle, honestly would think MS should avoid any mentions of red colours with the xbox brand after the 360s notorious hardware failure light setup.

As for using an SSD as Virtual ram.... honestly, that's a f'ing PC page file and it has existed in the PC space for 20+ years and it was used in the original xbox as that system used the hdd as a cache for textures as well, there's no way these machines are gonna be coming out with 2TB of SSD space and not costing over 500e because if they were that cost then PC gamers would buy the console and rip out the ssd to install in their PC and just bin the stripped console.

If they're talking about 4/8k games then the file sizes for games with those type textures will be in excess of 100GB per game, anything less than 2TB of storage on the consoles is going to hamper usability after a handful of titles are installed.

edit - Just in case anyone feels that my "Death" comment regarding the sales of the X1 brand right now is a troll or a subjective dig at the console I would ask you to look at the weekly sales of the machine and think to yourself at the point where a weekly sales of an xbox system which is being outsold by the Nintendo Switch in the US market by 2:1 is anything other than dead or effectively dead. I would challenge the machine as being objectively dead in the water in terms of sales standing against its 2 rival platforms.

Red+Rings? Something tied to R's as well.



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EricHiggin said:
Ganoncrotch said:

soooooo......

the original xbox gives us the base name Xbox... the 360 gives us the circle or ring, the current sales of the X1 give the name death and now the Scarlett gives us the colour Red.... Over 4 Generations Microsoft have stealth trolled everyone by naming or designing their projects as the Xbox red ring of death!

Sorry for my 4am brain popping this out but it made me chuckle, honestly would think MS should avoid any mentions of red colours with the xbox brand after the 360s notorious hardware failure light setup.

As for using an SSD as Virtual ram.... honestly, that's a f'ing PC page file and it has existed in the PC space for 20+ years and it was used in the original xbox as that system used the hdd as a cache for textures as well, there's no way these machines are gonna be coming out with 2TB of SSD space and not costing over 500e because if they were that cost then PC gamers would buy the console and rip out the ssd to install in their PC and just bin the stripped console.

If they're talking about 4/8k games then the file sizes for games with those type textures will be in excess of 100GB per game, anything less than 2TB of storage on the consoles is going to hamper usability after a handful of titles are installed.

edit - Just in case anyone feels that my "Death" comment regarding the sales of the X1 brand right now is a troll or a subjective dig at the console I would ask you to look at the weekly sales of the machine and think to yourself at the point where a weekly sales of an xbox system which is being outsold by the Nintendo Switch in the US market by 2:1 is anything other than dead or effectively dead. I would challenge the machine as being objectively dead in the water in terms of sales standing against its 2 rival platforms.

Red+Rings? Something tied to R's as well.

I feel bad considering I have bought 3 Ryzen cpu's and didn't think how they actually use a Red Ring as their logo for the Ryzen brand :D That's awesome. The Xbox1X had a scorpion etched on the PCB of it, I wonder will Scarlett have an Elephant on the board to signify the one that's in the room when it comes to the CPU having a red ring as it's logo heh.

Considering the damage to the brand that the RRoD done I think MS have done everything in their power to try to prevent hardware messup's like that from ever repeating again, tbh the Ryzen is the way to go in terms of crazy processing power without the need to stress the chip ever, I mean you can overclock a Ryzen 1700 to 700mhz above it's base clock while still using the stock cooler that comes free in the box if you do okay on the silicon lottery, I think 500mhz is an absolute given ( I mean per thread/core btw, given it's a 8/16 core/thread cpu you get 500mhz per thread so 500mhz x 16 on the stock cooler or a free 8ghz of compute power, those Ryzen OC with incredibly ease)

I use a 1700 in one of my machines and a 2600 in the other and have to say they are a processor that I feel I could never stress out... unless I open a program designed to stress a CPU with, great choice for the next gen of consoles.... except for that logo lol.



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Ganoncrotch said:
EricHiggin said:

Red+Rings? Something tied to R's as well.

I feel bad considering I have bought 3 Ryzen cpu's and didn't think how they actually use a Red Ring as their logo for the Ryzen brand :D That's awesome. The Xbox1X had a scorpion etched on the PCB of it, I wonder will Scarlett have an Elephant on the board to signify the one that's in the room when it comes to the CPU having a red ring as it's logo heh.

Considering the damage to the brand that the RRoD done I think MS have done everything in their power to try to prevent hardware messup's like that from ever repeating again, tbh the Ryzen is the way to go in terms of crazy processing power without the need to stress the chip ever, I mean you can overclock a Ryzen 1700 to 700mhz above it's base clock while still using the stock cooler that comes free in the box if you do okay on the silicon lottery, I think 500mhz is an absolute given ( I mean per thread/core btw, given it's a 8/16 core/thread cpu you get 500mhz per thread so 500mhz x 16 on the stock cooler or a free 8ghz of compute power, those Ryzen OC with incredibly ease)

I use a 1700 in one of my machines and a 2600 in the other and have to say they are a processor that I feel I could never stress out... unless I open a program designed to stress a CPU with, great choice for the next gen of consoles.... except for that logo lol.

Ryzen, kinda red, and an incomplete circle. AMD, Radeon, red and also known to run red hot for how long now?

Your first point sparked the memory of watching a YT vid of this and I had to post a pic. The AMD cooler with the red ring. It was too perfect. Is AMD trolling XB?

As for the XB1 though, in all seriousness, MS has done a fantastic job in terms of keeping the consoles cool and doing so without using jet engines. Just because you think your console is the Rolls Royce of gaming, doesn't mean you have to use their engines to cool it...

Ryzen is definitely the way to go for Scarlett and I'm sure people can safely assume it won't be much different than the XB1X in terms of cooling and noise. Now depending on how hard they push the CPU, and what kinda GPU performance they put in that thing, the shell could very well end up bigger than the X. If the performance requires it and yet the price is reasonable, who really cares though as long as it's aesthetically pleasing?

Last edited by EricHiggin - on 15 June 2019

The real question is the Anaconda 4x the power of the X or is that the base model?



SvennoJ said:

Yeah it can't be 4x the gpu power, Titan RTX is 16 teraflops.

Just looking at the GPU flops


Scarlet in 2020 will be ?

Titan X was 6.7 tflops in August 2016, somehow MS managed to get 6 tflops in the xbox one X for release end of 2017 for $499
1.5x faster than the RTX in a console in 1.5 years is out of the question. But 2x the XBox One X is very do-able, 2x the CPU, 2 + 2 = 4.


I think some numbers are off in that table, PS3 have 192 gigaflops, this is confirmed. Wii u, people just assumed it was around 352 gigaflops but it turned out to be 176 gigaflops, but it has never been confirmed.

Teraflops for Scarlet should be around 7,3 same for PS5. Those consoles will have 36CU max and looking how Navi clocks I think both of them will be clocked at around 1,6ghz which lead to 7,3-7,4 TF.

Source for PS3 gigaflops:

https://www.nvidia.com/content/PDF/tegra_white_papers/Tegra_K1_whitepaper_v1.0.pdf#page=18



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Trumpstyle said:
SvennoJ said:

Yeah it can't be 4x the gpu power, Titan RTX is 16 teraflops.

Just looking at the GPU flops


Scarlet in 2020 will be ?

Titan X was 6.7 tflops in August 2016, somehow MS managed to get 6 tflops in the xbox one X for release end of 2017 for $499
1.5x faster than the RTX in a console in 1.5 years is out of the question. But 2x the XBox One X is very do-able, 2x the CPU, 2 + 2 = 4.


I think some numbers are off in that table, PS3 have 192 gigaflops, this is confirmed. Wii u, people just assumed it was around 352 gigaflops but it turned out to be 176 gigaflops, but it has never been confirmed.

Teraflops for Scarlet should be around 7,3 same for PS5. Those consoles will have 36CU max and looking how Navi clocks I think both of them will be clocked at around 1,6ghz which lead to 7,3-7,4 TF.

Source for PS3 gigaflops:

https://www.nvidia.com/content/PDF/tegra_white_papers/Tegra_K1_whitepaper_v1.0.pdf#page=18

Those numbers came from gamespot I think, no wonder they're off.

It's not accurate and not a great measure, but as comparison sort of useful to understand that 24 terraflops gpu (4x the X) is out of the question. X was a big upgrade in 4 years going up in price, Scarlett 3 years later with many other upgraded components can't afford that kind of GPU power when currently 16 is the consumer max.

Most of the improvements will come from faster cpu, ram and storage. Yet that does mean the the pro consoles of this gen can't be supported very long into the next gen. The other components will be too much of a drag to simply work the same at lower resolution.



SvennoJ said:

It's not accurate and not a great measure, but as comparison sort of useful to understand that 24 terraflops gpu (4x the X) is out of the question. X was a big upgrade in 4 years going up in price, Scarlett 3 years later with many other upgraded components can't afford that kind of GPU power when currently 16 is the consumer max.

You don't need 4x the Teraflops of the Xbox One X to have 4x the GPU performance.

Scarlett's Navi-based GPU is NOT the same as the PC variant, it's taking features/tricks from RDNA2/AMD's next gen GPU architecture.
Navi on the PC has 25% IPC uplift over Vega (GCN 5.0).
Vega (GCN 5.) had a 5-10% IPC uplift over Fury (GCN 3.0).

The Xbox One X's GPU is derived from GCN 1.0 as that is the base hardware that the Original Xbox One is derived from with some new tricks taken from Polaris (GCN 4.0) so there are significant gains to be had irrespective of the teraflop number.
GCN is extremely modular so AMD was able to take some forward features and backport it to older GCN designs for various markets.




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Pemalite said:
SvennoJ said:

It's not accurate and not a great measure, but as comparison sort of useful to understand that 24 terraflops gpu (4x the X) is out of the question. X was a big upgrade in 4 years going up in price, Scarlett 3 years later with many other upgraded components can't afford that kind of GPU power when currently 16 is the consumer max.

You don't need 4x the Teraflops of the Xbox One X to have 4x the GPU performance.

Scarlett's Navi-based GPU is NOT the same as the PC variant, it's taking features/tricks from RDNA2/AMD's next gen GPU architecture.
Navi on the PC has 25% IPC uplift over Vega (GCN 5.0).
Vega (GCN 5.) had a 5-10% IPC uplift over Fury (GCN 3.0).

The Xbox One X's GPU is derived from GCN 1.0 as that is the base hardware that the Original Xbox One is derived from with some new tricks taken from Polaris (GCN 4.0) so there are significant gains to be had irrespective of the teraflop number.
GCN is extremely modular so AMD was able to take some forward features and backport it to older GCN designs for various markets.

Using your best judgement on the gain in efficiencies and architecture, minding that Tflops is quite pointless as well. At which Tflop count more or less for the architecture of PS5/XB4 we would reach about 4x more performance than X1X?

Last edited by DonFerrari - on 17 June 2019

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People need to understand that 4x faster doesn't mean 24 TFLOPS GPU, maybe it will come with a 10-14 TFLOP GPU range but the architecture of the console as a whole will provide 4 times+ the performance of the current xbx.

Last edited by CuCabeludo - on 17 June 2019

DonFerrari said:
Pemalite said:

You don't need 4x the Teraflops of the Xbox One X to have 4x the GPU performance.

Scarlett's Navi-based GPU is NOT the same as the PC variant, it's taking features/tricks from RDNA2/AMD's next gen GPU architecture.
Navi on the PC has 25% IPC uplift over Vega (GCN 5.0).
Vega (GCN 5.) had a 5-10% IPC uplift over Fury (GCN 3.0).

The Xbox One X's GPU is derived from GCN 1.0 as that is the base hardware that the Original Xbox One is derived from with some new tricks taken from Polaris (GCN 4.0) so there are significant gains to be had irrespective of the teraflop number.
GCN is extremely modular so AMD was able to take some forward features and backport it to older GCN designs for various markets.

Using your best judgement on the gain in efficiencies and architecture, minding that Tflops is quite pointless as well. At which Tflop count more or less for the architecture of PS5/XB4 we would reach about 4x more performance than X1X?

We can do a very rough estimate with some basic math and assumptions. Let's assume GCN 1-2, 2-3, 3-4, and 4-5 all have a roughly 7.5% efficiency advantage while 5 to Navi (RDNA) has 25% as listed above by Pema. 

6 TF * 0.925 * 0.925 * 0.925 * 0.925 * 0.75 = 3.29 TF

So we're looking at roughly a 3.3 TF Navi GPU to reach similar performance to the XB1X, theoretically. 4x that is roughly 13.2 TF. 

This is all extremely rudimentary and depending on other hardware changes made by MS/Sony, I'd wager anything between 12 and 14.5 TF would be the range for 4x.