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KLAMarine said:

"He is telling them they have no right to their opinions"

>Where?

Please dude.  If you want to act pendant that's fine but no one in this thread is that stupid.  You can willfully play the fool on that point but your argument is empty or non argument since you posted a question instead of a rebuttal.  I guess you have nothing which is obvious by this response.

"You have no clue what it feels like to have someone question your rights to live, have an opinion and a position in your country because you do not look like what they believe is the standard American citizen.  You have no idea how insulting it is for someone to even suggest you go back to where they believe you came from when you are a US citizen and a American."

>Oh, you know me? Please, tell me about me. I'd love to hear what you have to say.

lol, no I do not have to know you to tell this is not your experience in the US but educate me.  Are you an immigrant who has gone through the process of becoming a citizen of the US and had someone tell you to go back to your own country.  Why don't you enlighten me on your experience because I can definitely enlighten you on mine.  For every one example you give me, I will give you 2.  



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Machiavellian said:
KLAMarine said:

"Trump is the president of the United States"

>And does that give him the power to remove someone from office or a citizen from the country?

"there are people who seriously want to revoke the citizenship of people like Ilhan Omar"

>I think you need to meet special criteria to achieve that, it doesn't just happen.

"there were times where certain groups(blacks and women) didn't have full citizen rights in the US"

>Well it's 2019. Let's talk 2019.

"Do you think it is ok to threaten political enemies in such a way?"

>No. What threat are you talking about?

"Would it be ok for you if what Trump said becomes reality?"

>That "progressive" congresswomen go to some country and help fix its problems? And then come back and "show how it's done"? That doesn't sound that bad. That actually sounds kinda cool.

I am sure you would believe it sounds cool for "progressive" to go to some other country and help fix their problems as long as they are not trying to fix the problems within their own country.  Hell, you should be Trump tweet writer the next time.

"I am sure you would believe it sounds cool for "progressive" to go to some other country and help fix their problems"

>Yeah, definitely sounds cool! How is problem-fixing not cool?

"as long as they are not trying to fix the problems within their own country."

>What? Where'd this come from? I'd eventually want those progressives back. I don't want skill or talent leaving the country permanently.



SpokenTruth said:

What a cringe thing to tweet.



SpokenTruth said:
jason1637 said:

What a cringe thing to tweet.

I know.  The state of bigotry, racism and hatred in this country with the umbrella of indifference turning a blind eye to it is absolutely cringe worthy of the highest levels.

1/3rd - Don't like it, leave.
1/3rd - I just to make a better life for me, my children and everyone else.
1/3rd - I don't care.  I got a tax break.

No it's cringe because those numbers are just wrong if you look at polling and just the way it's wording is cringy.



SpokenTruth said:
jason1637 said:

No it's cringe because those numbers are just wrong if you look at polling and just the way it's wording is cringy.

You recognize it's not meant to be proportionally accurate but rather a social commentary of the respective groups of hate, care and indifference, right?

That's why its cringe. He's not accurately converying his point. It just comes off as an inaccurate hot take for twitter clout.



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SpokenTruth said:
jason1637 said:

That's why its cringe. He's not accurately converying his point. It just comes off as an inaccurate hot take for twitter clout.

Then you miss the forest by staring at a tree.

It's a statement showing that one person desires great harm upon another person while a 3rd ignores the whole thing.  It's an allegory of our social circumstances mirroring those of Germany ~80 years ago.

Are we not seeing this very thing being played out right here in this thread?  Trump (first 3rd) wants someone to leave (second 3rd) while some in this thread imitate the Three Apes* (the final 3rd) as they ignore or rationalize away the first 3rd.

* - See no evil, here no evil, speak no evil. The willful ignorance of the indifferent.

I don't think I'm missing the point. I understand what the guy is trying to say and imply but I think he's going about it the wrong way.

Most comparisons of the US Government of 2019 to the German government of the 1930s are ridiculous because people who make these comparisons either dont understand how the government operates or are just chasing clout.

From what I've read pretty much everyone in the thread believes what Trump tweeted was bad. The argument happening is whether the tweets were racist or not. And if you look at opinion polling most Americans think Trump's tweets were bad too. 



KLAMarine said:
Puppyroach said:

Why does it matter whether or not he used their name? It is equally bad to use a person´s name as a measurement of whether or not the person is an equal citizens to you or not.

Exactly, he dictates whether or not they should be in the US, therefore he is putting himself as the arbiter of who can stay, leave and return. He doesn´t understand that, as citizens, everyone is equal regardless of ethnicity, name, political affiliation and so on. The president, even a racist one, is not elevated in any way as a citizen.

Let´s look at some of his histories:

- He settled a case in the '70s where he was sued for discrimination against black Americans in a housing case.

- The Central Park 5 case where he insisted on the guilt of the black Americans, along with on Hispanic, even after a confession and conviction of a serial rapist.

- He pushed the agenda that Obama wasn´t legitimate as president based on the false assumption that he wasn´t born in the US. He has never made that assumption against a white president (not even Hillary which he loathes as a person).

- He accused the judge with a hispanic heritage of bias against him because Trump had been so hard on Mexico.

- He made this comment on immigrants from Mexico: “When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.”

- He called Warren "Pocahontas" (a racist slur traditionally used against native-Americans) when she claimed (right or wrong) native-American heritage.

These are just some examples of his history with ethnicities and what he seem to view as different races (race is a difficult term to use since it has no clear definition but it is used primarily to address different ethnicities or people of a different color).

"Why does it matter whether or not he used their name?"

>Because the accusation is that he used the race of the supposed four congresswomen (which he never named in his tweets btw) to determined they didn't come from the US. I see Tlaib and I see Ilhan and I think "hmm, I wonder if they were born here in the states?"

Nothing racist about it, it's simple logic.

"It is equally bad to use a person´s name as a measurement of whether or not the person is an equal citizens to you or not."

>I don't recall Trump making any such measurement in his tweets. He said "go back, fix those problems, then return to the US."

Actually he did mention them in his tweets

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1151327083110510594?s=19

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1151451067437191168?s=19

The fact that you don't even know that is very telling, especially since it can be easily researched.

KLAMarine said:
RolStoppable said:

I concur that he is wrong. You never struck me as someone who is acting deliberate, but rather as someone who is honestly very slow on the uptake.

More like others just get ahead of themselves.

the-pi-guy said:

This is what you don't understand.  This is the whole problem: 

-You can't assume someone was from somewhere else. 

-You can't suggest they go back there.  

I don't even care at this point if you disagree that it's a problem.  But understand that those two points are in general considered to be a no-no for most people.  Especially people that were born in America and get continuously get asked where they are from, and even worse told to go back there.  

It doesn't matter if he said "come back when you've fixed those problems".  Because for him, he might as well have said "come back when hell freezes over."  And it basically would have had the same meaning to him.

"-You can't assume someone was from somewhere else."

>Sure you can: at the risk of being wrong.

"-You can't suggest they go back there."

>Why the hell not? It's a suggestion, not a command. No one is forcing anyone to go somewhere against their will.

The fact that at one of his recent rallies his supporters shouted "SEND HER BACK!" regarding Omar and Trump did nothing to stop them shows that it basically has the same meaning to him and his supporters. "Send her back" is definitely not a suggestion, it is a command.

Last edited by tsogud - on 19 July 2019

 

SpokenTruth said:
The irony of MAGA.

Trump recently said to 4 congresswomen that if they don't like current American policy, politics and circumstances they can go back to their country of origin (I'm paraphrasing, of course).

But is not the phrase Make America Great Again a statement of unhappiness with current American policy, politics and circumstances?

www.reddit.com/r/TrumpCriticizesTrump/



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

vivster said:
SpokenTruth said:
The irony of MAGA.

Trump recently said to 4 congresswomen that if they don't like current American policy, politics and circumstances they can go back to their country of origin (I'm paraphrasing, of course).

But is not the phrase Make America Great Again a statement of unhappiness with current American policy, politics and circumstances?

www.reddit.com/r/TrumpCriticizesTrump/

"Trump's Law: For every Trump quote, there is an equal and opposite Trump quote." -- Seth Meyers



KLAMarine said:

MrWayne said:

What do you mean? It's clearly a threat especially if you consider three things, a) Trump is the president of the United States, b) there are people who seriously want to revoke the citizenship of people like Ilhan Omar and c) there were times where certain groups(blacks and women) didn't have full citizen rights in the US.

Do you think it is ok to threaten political enemies in such a way? Would it be ok for you if what Trump said becomes reality?

"Trump is the president of the United States"

>And does that give him the power to remove someone from office or a citizen from the country?

probably not but that the country's most powerful man toying with the idea, is still problematic.

"there are people who seriously want to revoke the citizenship of people like Ilhan Omar"

>I think you need to meet special criteria to achieve that, it doesn't just happen.

yeah you would probably need a majority among the people, mighty supporters are needed to achieve that.

"there were times where certain groups(blacks and women) didn't have full citizen rights in the US"

>Well it's 2019. Let's talk 2019.

It's 2019 and Alabama made abortions basically illegal, something many people couldn't imagine happening in the 21st century. Don't take any of your rights for granted.

"Do you think it is ok to threaten political enemies in such a way?"

>No. What threat are you talking about?

A threat is a threat even if there isn't a immediate action to it.

"Would it be ok for you if what Trump said becomes reality?"

>That "progressive" congresswomen go to some country and help fix its problems? And then come back and "show how it's done"? That doesn't sound that bad. That actually sounds kinda cool.

These four women are elected for the US Congress, all they should care about are their voters and America. Why do they have to pass such an unrealistic test? If every american politician also have to be an successfull politician in a nother country than non of your politicians would be in office.

It doesn't sound that cool anymore if you think about it.

Last edited by MrWayne - on 19 July 2019