By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close
Dulfite said:

I can't really address CRT specifically. What I can address is how terrible it was, as a white teacher, to be told by black administrators that we should teach our students that white people are inherently evil. To even bring up conservative perspectives would bring terrible retribution down from the admins, and we always tried to along with liberal and independent perspectives, because that's what is fair. Students should learn about all perspectives and all religions. That same administrative team of principles literally said, "You wouldn't teach a bunch of Jews about Hitler either, would you?". Yes, yes we would! We learn from history, not trying to hide what happened! And I don't know any teachers that believe white people were in the right over slavery centuries ago. We aren't trying to hide that. We, of course, know our ancestors messed up. But teaching black and white students that white people are evil or more evil than the rest of mankind to this day? You've got to be kidding me! This isn't me exaggerating, this actually happened to me and my fellow social studies teachers. The amount of abuse I witnessed firsthand and heard from fellow teachers I worked with about how they were dealt with by black administrators was horrifying, all because we were born white. I had the privilege of having black administrators make me out to be the bad guy simply because of the color of my skin.

So I don't know what CRT teaches, frankly I don't care. These administrators used CRT to justify their actions. Maybe it isn't CRT's fault, maybe it is, but regardless, there are people interpreting things from it to justify horrible actions and perspectives done upon white people who had nothing to do with slavery.

Assuming that happened, that sucks but it says nothing about CRT. It says that these individuals handled race poorly, it doesn't say that the government should step into to ensure that schools simply don't teach about race and how the effects of our country's racist history still linger in our society. 



Around the Network
sundin13 said:
Dulfite said:

I can't really address CRT specifically. What I can address is how terrible it was, as a white teacher, to be told by black administrators that we should teach our students that white people are inherently evil. To even bring up conservative perspectives would bring terrible retribution down from the admins, and we always tried to along with liberal and independent perspectives, because that's what is fair. Students should learn about all perspectives and all religions. That same administrative team of principles literally said, "You wouldn't teach a bunch of Jews about Hitler either, would you?". Yes, yes we would! We learn from history, not trying to hide what happened! And I don't know any teachers that believe white people were in the right over slavery centuries ago. We aren't trying to hide that. We, of course, know our ancestors messed up. But teaching black and white students that white people are evil or more evil than the rest of mankind to this day? You've got to be kidding me! This isn't me exaggerating, this actually happened to me and my fellow social studies teachers. The amount of abuse I witnessed firsthand and heard from fellow teachers I worked with about how they were dealt with by black administrators was horrifying, all because we were born white. I had the privilege of having black administrators make me out to be the bad guy simply because of the color of my skin.

So I don't know what CRT teaches, frankly I don't care. These administrators used CRT to justify their actions. Maybe it isn't CRT's fault, maybe it is, but regardless, there are people interpreting things from it to justify horrible actions and perspectives done upon white people who had nothing to do with slavery.

Assuming that happened, that sucks but it says nothing about CRT. It says that these individuals handled race poorly, it doesn't say that the government should step into to ensure that schools simply don't teach about race and how the effects of our country's racist history still linger in our society. 

Sure, but there are a lot of people that support CRT (or what they think it is) that are using it as ammo against white people, and that's what has gotten white's easily offended by CRT, in my experience. It isn't right wing ignorance of the of CRT, but rather left wing ignorance of how to apply CRT that is causing problems, in my limited, anecdotal experience.



Dulfite said:
sundin13 said:

Assuming that happened, that sucks but it says nothing about CRT. It says that these individuals handled race poorly, it doesn't say that the government should step into to ensure that schools simply don't teach about race and how the effects of our country's racist history still linger in our society. 

Sure, but there are a lot of people that support CRT (or what they think it is) that are using it as ammo against white people, and that's what has gotten white's easily offended by CRT, in my experience. It isn't right wing ignorance of the of CRT, but rather left wing ignorance of how to apply CRT that is causing problems, in my limited, anecdotal experience.

I don't think this phenomenon is quite as widespread as you seem to think it is, and even if it was it still wouldn't justify the action that many Republicans have taken against schools. 



sundin13 said:
Dulfite said:

Sure, but there are a lot of people that support CRT (or what they think it is) that are using it as ammo against white people, and that's what has gotten white's easily offended by CRT, in my experience. It isn't right wing ignorance of the of CRT, but rather left wing ignorance of how to apply CRT that is causing problems, in my limited, anecdotal experience.

I don't think this phenomenon is quite as widespread as you seem to think it is, and even if it was it still wouldn't justify the action that many Republicans have taken against schools. 

90% of what happens at schools is controlled by the board of education for each district. If CRT is being weaponized in a district, then it doesn't matter how uncommon it is nationally, it has to be dealt with and angers many. The district I taught in weaponized it. The one I live in was starting to weaponize it, along with having little kids have access to books about molestation and rape in horrifying, specific detail, amongst other things, so the people living around me elected two conservatives to the board last Tuesday in the election, beating the supposedly non-political incumbents who allowed these policies to take place. The people have spoken around here. These are district-specific issues, mostly. None of us know how "widespread" this is or isn't, because we only live in our small neck of the woods.



Dulfite said:
sundin13 said:

I don't think this phenomenon is quite as widespread as you seem to think it is, and even if it was it still wouldn't justify the action that many Republicans have taken against schools. 

90% of what happens at schools is controlled by the board of education for each district. If CRT is being weaponized in a district, then it doesn't matter how uncommon it is nationally, it has to be dealt with and angers many. The district I taught in weaponized it. The one I live in was starting to weaponize it, along with having little kids have access to books about molestation and rape in horrifying, specific detail, amongst other things, so the people living around me elected two conservatives to the board last Tuesday in the election, beating the supposedly non-political incumbents who allowed these policies to take place. The people have spoken around here. These are district-specific issues, mostly. None of us know how "widespread" this is or isn't, because we only live in our small neck of the woods.

The unfortunate thing about anecdotes is that I can really only trust them so far, and even if I do trust them, they speak to very little in the grand scheme of things. That is part of the reason they form such a bad basic for an argument. They accomplish very little here, and doubly so when they aren't sourced.



Around the Network
Machiavellian said:
KLAMarine said:

I have to be honest, I can see why some have trouble understanding what CRT is. JWeinCom's own link refers to it as it not being a noun but a verb:

"CRT is not a noun, but a verb."

So one can CRT something? Can I CRT my textbook? I'm going to critical race theory my lunch today. Critical race theory: I'm 99% certain 'theory' is a noun, not a verb and what do you know, this dictionary here declares it a noun.

MW also calls CRT a noun...

"It cannot be confined to a static and narrow definition but is considered to be an evolving and malleable practice"

This just makes CRT more difficult to work with if its definition is fluid rather than static... I can sort of see why Tucker Carlson is confused by CRT...

https://www.americanbar.org/groups/crsj/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/civil-rights-reimagining-policing/a-lesson-on-critical-race-theory/

So lets dispense with the word play and get to the meat.  Exactly what part of CRT are you actually interested in, the political part or the actually academic part since both are actually not the same.  I believe we have already established that the political part actually really has nothing to do with the academic part since CRT is not taught outside of a university.  Even the diversity subjects that are taught in some schools doesn't even come close to what CRT actually discusses. 

For example you state that Tucker is confused by CRT but actually Tucker is not confused at all.  Tucker does not really care about CRT the academic part and instead looks to give a reality to CRT the political part by redefining it for the purpose of his audience.  The easiest way to manipulate people is to use their own bias against them. As with most people who get their news from a talking head, taking the time to learn about a subject is to much work, instead just let someone tell you instead and form your opinion from there.

I'm interested in the academic part. I guess you could say I'm for a critical look at CRT.

sundin13 said:
KLAMarine said:

Well if we ask John Oliver himself, someone I understand you hold in high regard, yes. CRT can potentially screw kids up sometimes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EICp1vGlh_U (9:00, 9:55)

Damn, the dishonesty in this take is palpable. 

Feel free to elaborate at your earliest convenience.



KLAMarine said:
sundin13 said:

Damn, the dishonesty in this take is palpable. 

Feel free to elaborate at your earliest convenience.

John Oliver: Discussing race in the classroom isn't always easy or done well

You: John Oliver said that CRT can potentially screw up kids



sundin13 said:
KLAMarine said:

Feel free to elaborate at your earliest convenience.

John Oliver: Discussing race in the classroom isn't always easy or done well

You: John Oliver said that CRT can potentially screw up kids

I never said John Oliver said that.



Let's see. Whites enslaved the blacks and made money off running plantations. Then the north finally had enough and told south they can go fuck themselves. The white rich plantation owners in south were too lazy to pick cotton themselves or pay a living wage so they cried state rights. We fought a war and you mother fucking racist southerns lost. Deal with it and now I live in the south.

Last edited by sethnintendo - on 13 April 2022

the-pi-guy said:
KLAMarine said:

Well if we ask John Oliver himself, someone I understand you hold in high regard, yes. CRT can potentially screw kids up sometimes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EICp1vGlh_U (9:00, 9:55)

KLAMarine said:

I never said John Oliver said that.

Then what are you saying here:

"Well if we ask John Oliver himself, someone I understand you hold in high regard, yes. CRT can potentially screw kids up sometimes."

That John Oliver, in effect, said that CRT in class can be taught in messed up ways.