Dems are losing the long game because they are shit at it. We are terrible voters, we give up far too easily and we have a tendency of being our own worst enemies. It isn't solely the fault of the system. The people control the government and if they keep voting for the status quo, it is because we have been unable to convince them to do otherwise, partly because we continually self-sabotage.

Yeah I agree, unfortunately from my view point a lot of what makes Dems so weak as a voting group is the constant media focus on factions and individuals, and not the policies, this creates tribalism that divides, but not a well informed rational constituency, many in power love it this way as its easier to control people if they are divided on loyalties instead of working hard on policy by educating, having open facts based debates, bringing in experts (scientists etc), and the ton of work that goes into policy development and implementation, just easier to play the game of divide and conquer, its a very effect way to support corporate sponsors and personal advancement 

Obviously in the big/long term picture everyone loses without policy being well understood and discussed with the inclusion of constant media focus on factions, particularly on immediate issues like the M4A and very worryingly the Climate Crises   

The game of politics has been going on before any of us was born, and it will continue way after we are dead.  You say nothing has been done for decades well we will leave that one to your opinion, the key is that the things you want has not progressed.  The reason why the things you want has not progressed because people are not voting towards your agenda.  I, personally blame this on the fickleness of people only motivated to vote when they are emotionally invested.  Wondering why nothing change when they rarely participate.  Only caring when the outcome suits them.  Not understanding the rules or the process but wallow in self pity. 

You only have to look to the last few elections to see that Progressives are not winning.  They have repeatedly lost to moderate Dems and make no dents in red states.  70+ million people voted for Trump which shows that a huge number of voters are more than happy with the current GOP agenda.  Climate change, M4A and everything else in your list they do not care. Biden isn't President because he is a great leader, he is president because a lot of voters were tired of Trump, just enough which as far as the electoral college goes gave him an edge. That edge was very slim but guess what happens next go around.

I talk about heart and emotion because voting that way means people only vote when its convenient.  If they are not motivated by the choice they do nothing.  Case in point, if the 2 choices for President is Desantis and Trump, would you vote.  I can tell you I would definitely vote each and every time because I need to make a decision which is the better person even if I believe both are garbage.  I do not waste my time on emotions that do not serve anything but make me feel good.  You can have all the empathy in the world but what does it actually do.  

SO tell me Rad what exactly are you doing.  Since you believe I sit on the sidelines, what type of action are you taking.  Enlighten me on your efforts to make a difference and we can compare notes.   I am more than happy to show you my voting record.  How many elections have you attended, from the State, local and federal. 

The progressives will continue to be asked to compromise because they do not have the votes.  Its so simple that I do not understand why we continue to go over the same point.  I ask you questions but you have not given one example how they can make things work out to get all of their agenda.  The progressives will continue to compromise or get nothing and if they want to block everything because they do not get what they want, I assure you, the GOP will smile all the way to the next election.  So yes, if they want to play right into the do nothing GOP, then as you stated, the Dems will lose because the GOP has built a platform on doing nothing.  The group that wants change has always needed to work smarter and harder, this is the process.

You still have not provided one answer to how Biden is going to lead the party and change Manchin and Sinema.  You have not provided any way to get around filibuster.  Its like you just ignore these very important process to the Senate as if it doesn't mean anything.  You have not even provided a way to get 50 votes but you believe that Biden is a magician.  You have not provided what he can do to force Manchin or Sinema to vote for his agenda.  This is what I call not being realistic.  You are looking for a scapegoat and that is fine but Biden is no savior for the Dems and he never was.  Why waste time concentrating on Biden who was always just another bump on the road.  The real issue is that the Dems do not have 50 votes to do anything and if you are paying attention, there is nothing Biden or anyone else is going to do to change either Manchin or Sinema minds.  So if that is the case, then the people with the real power at the moment is the ones who do not care.  Its pretty much as simple as that.  Progressives need to come to the table with something that make these 2 idiots happy or they can pack up and hope by the next election they get lucky and Trump screw up everything for the GOP like he did in Georgia.

One thing for sure, if you believe in doing nothing then are you not supporting the exact thing you keep griping about.  Nothing gets done.

So your lack of empathy argument in a nut shell is "never try", seems to have worked for decades in getting nothing done, bravo 

Biden needs to destroy the filibuster period, he is also the Dem leader dealing with Dem holdouts, a strong charismatic intelligent leader would have done a lot more behind the scenes to get results, much of political history is about such influential leaders, Biden needs to step up or the US Public have chosen the wrong leader

We are dealing with a Climate Crisis that simply cant wait or be argued away

Yes it is the Progressives that represent the best of us that get shafted by a thoughtless media, thoughtless corrupted politicians, and thoughtless supporters, corporations and apologists that say we have no choice but to take it 

No, my lack of empathy says it means nothing if you do not have the votes. We keep circling around this topic and you basically just hear what you want to hear.  You ignore everything else but cannot provide one piece of data where it matters in securing election wins or even votes to get issues pass.  

This is why you appear naïve to me.  Biden cannot destroy the filibuster.  Only the Senate can do that and you already have 2 Senators who are not going to vote for it.  You need 50 votes, you only have 48, its a simple math problem.  This is why we continue to have arguments about Biden power and reach when you clearly do not understand what he can and cannot do.  

Biden is all you got.  For the next 3 years he is all you got and if he runs for a second term he will still be all you got because the 2nd choice which will be a Republican you can be assured of cares absolutely nothing about what you believe in.  Instead of putting all the blame on Biden lets take a look at Bernie which you seem to put so much trust in.  True leadership is about making hard decisions. When you cannot get what you want, you need to know what you can get and make it happen.  Your definition of leadership sounds like some pie in the sky best case scenarios that rarely happens.  Progressives need to make hard decisions on what they want because that is the hand they have at the moment.

If Bernie was so great since you put so much stock in his ability, why can he not get Manchin to budge.  These 2 have been in special sessions for the last week or so and Manchin went from 1.5 trillion to 0. Do you seriously believe that even if Bernie was president, he would be able to make Manchin just do what he wants.  You posted videos on what moves Manchin so why do you believe the progressive agenda means anything to him.  He has gone on record heavily criticizing Bernie and the progressives.  So why is Bernie not coming up with that magic formula to get Manchin to budge.

Hmm, well you are going to have to wait.  You cannot rush anything in government if you do not have the votes.  It makes no difference how much you believe that things need to hurry up.  If you do not have the votes you cannot get anything done.  You are wasting your time trying to convince me about climate change because I have seen it first hand.  The thing is, convincing me means nothing since I am one vote.  There is 70+ million voters who care absolutely nothing about climate change or at least not enough to change their vote.  There is a whole party in government today that also care nothing about climate change.  You keep throwing this around like the Dems have the votes but they do not.  60 votes still required.  The progressives do not have the votes so if they believe Climate change is the thing they are going to die on the sword for, then they better get to dealing and getting those bills to the president desk.

To your last statement, so what.  This is the climate the progressives are in.  As I stated before, they need to fight smatter and harder, nothing is going to be given to them and right now they are not winning.  America doesn't lean that far left and the reason why because Progressives cannot muster enough wins.  They are to busy trying to hit the home run when they need to get players on base first.

Just today, I was looking at how many votes Trump got in 2016 which was 62 million and how much he got in 2020 74 million.  He got more than 10 million more votes in 2020.  The good thing is that as a whole when voting is made easier, the country does swing more towards blue but as we have seen, the GOP is making sure to nix that and we are probably going to see levels go back into the 60 million again.  Even though he had a very low approval rating he still scored so many votes and because of those votes, he controls the GOP party.  Do you not understand this dynamic. On the other hand Biden got 81 million but since Dems love to eat their own, its not nearly as effective.  Instead of putting all the blame on Manchin and Sinema you are wasting time throwing Biden under the bus.  This is the difference between the GOP and Dems.  When any of their House or Senate goes against their top leaders, all the blame is focused on those House or Senate individuals.  

^ I don't think you can get it because you don't feel it, you have no sense of urgency in these matters, it is what it is talking to you sadly :/ 

Your apparent lack of empathy appears to hamper your decision making around these issues effecting society/people as a whole

The most effective leaders of a society are empathic ones, they understand the needs of their people intimately, lacking that takes you away from what a society really means to most people, you may not be able to understand these issues because this empathetic trait is diminished in you

The sense of urgency and concern about the Climate Crisis is very real for people, it's not a game to be played for most of us

It doesn't matter if you feel things are urgent because the system isn't built for urgency.  The population as a whole isn't concerned for the urgency in climate crisis that is why its not even close to being the #1 issue for a lot of Americans.  If it was, people would vote that way.  So the question still stands, if its such a big urgency, then that should be the biggest items progressives should be pushing and get it done.  In other words, forget all the other stuff they are trying to push and get those climate change bills on the President desk.  Make the hard decisions and get it done.  You continue to not see my position.  My position is always get something done.  You seem to believe that progressives can get everything on their bucket list done which if you paid attention you would know that's not going to happen.

Your lack of understand the process hamper you from understanding that it does not matter until enough people make it an issue and vote along those lines.  You waste time talking about empathy on things you are concerned about when it doesn't produce votes. Case in point would be Trump. I would say that Trump has a lot of empathy if I go by your example.  His empathy towards his base which he made sure to try and deliver on everything he believed they wanted. The question is, does his empathy towards his base gain you anything.  One person empathy is another person tyranny. You fall into the same trap of believing what you care about is what everyone else care about but the votes are not there.  Politicians respond when it becomes such an issue that people will not vote for someone unless they support it.

You still do not answer any questions which I have to assume you have no answers.  Being passionate about something but with no solutions is worthless.  So what if you believe you are a real person because you are concerned about Climate Crisis, how do you convince all those other voters to be concerned.  How do you get the votes.  What are you doing to make it happen and change those people minds because right now, being concerned isn't getting you votes.

With all of this said, this is my position.  Healthcare should be the major priority for Progressives.  Climate change just is not impactful enough in a short period of time to gain enough votes to impact GOP, Independents and Dems.  Trying to get major healthcare initiative in place especially in the climate we are in with COVID is something they can build on right away and thus get more traction for their other agenda.  Progressives need wins and they need to make difficult choices which items they want to really push and leave everything else for future endeavors.  Continuing to try to push for these huge spending packages is a strategy that has failed because the US isn't ready to go down that route, not even close.

The history of the Dems/Reps to get things done is abysmal in the US, the business as usual model has failed for decades, your just playing a losing game  

You have asked how I think it should go, and I have repeatedly given my view on how this might be done, as we are at the negotiation stage, so negotiation skills and influence play a pivotal role, thus I discussed what Biden's (or any competent leaders) potential role in this 'should' be, re-read previous posts, you just ignore it, so your lying

You say the Climate Crisis isnt urgent, that's enough for me or anyone else to not take you seriously.. you must have your head deep in the coal seam on this issue 

Your lack of empathy towards people in your country is making it impossible for you to understand the issues your country and the world faces, your seriously a dead end intellectually on social issues if you don't have empathy in the mix 

So tell me what is the record for Progressives in getting their bucket list done.  You seem quick to throw everyone else under the bus but take a blind eye to the progressives.  You tell me how the progressives are playing the right game, how are they achieving their goals.  How many of their policies are put into place.  If everyone is playing a losing game then you must have some examples of the Progressives rising to the top??

Actually no you did not provide anything on my questions or I should say you stated some nebulous idea that somehow Biden should make something happen because he is the LEADER.  In other words, you cannot bring one ideal to the table of what he should actually do.  What can he offer to Machin or Sinema to change their vote, what power does he have that would put them in line.  Your whole point on this part is a non answer because saying "Well if he was a great leader he would make them do what he wants" doesn't provide any specifics.  You basically have no clue how to handle these 2 Senators but you believe that Biden has some magically ability because he is President. You make it seem as if being President gives him some special powers over these 2 individuals which shows a serious lack of understanding the political system.  Just looking at West Virginia shows that Trump got 68% of the votes.  Which means, Biden has absolutely no sway in making Manchin do anything because Manchin reelection does not hinge on support for Biden.  This is why the majority of Manchin talking points have fallen in line with GOP talking points because that is where his constituents voters are at.  

So again, so you cannot state I am lying I ask you again, what exactly do you recommend that Biden can do that will bring Manchin and Sinema to the table and vote on progressives agenda.  Please do not waste my time with "Well if he is a great leader" and actually provide something specific.

This is a classic case of you hearing what you want to hear and not reading the context I presented.  I stated Climate change is not urgent to the majority of Americans because looking at the polls, its not #1 in their list of important issues.  Healthcare is the most important.  Which means you give the people what they want and then build from there or you can try to give them what is not what they want and hope they care.  Just because you believe climate change is urgent does not fall in line with the rest of America.

You keep with this empathy crap, but empathy as I have given an example means what I care about does not mean it benefits you.  The whole empathy line is a waste because everyone does not care about the same things and everyone considers some issues more important than others.  Another case in point would be Christians.  Abortions is a huge point for them, they would vote against any candidate that does not support getting rid of abortions or is in favor of abortion.  I could be empathetic to them but how does that effect people who have a different point of view on the subject.  This whole empathy line you are going down is pretty much garbage.  Its a way for you to believe you are taking the high road, that your viewpoint is somehow altruistic and everyone that doesn't believe in what you believe in is wrong.  This is why Progressives cannot crack red states, because you come across as if you have all the answers while shitting on their concerns.  You belittle their opinion and never listen to what matters to them and wonder why they cannot see how great and glorious your viewpoint is.

Last but not least, is the irony in your last statements.  You know you sound just like a Republican.  Its my way or no way.  What I believe is right makes you wrong and if you do not believe in what I believe in then you are morally bad person etc, etc.  Its so interesting to see how your arguments mirrors so much the people on the right.  I bet you rarely have any conversations with anyone who doesn't agree with you or even have friends who viewpoint is totally different.

Still advocating for getting nothing done? I think it really is because you have no skin in the game and/or you don't have empathy for people in real need, it really is a blind spot in your thought process, you rather continue on the same path of doing nothing for decades more :/ 

Progressives have brought most of those social and environmental ideas to the forefront of political and public thinking, not something "moderates" or Reps have achieved, generally they have opposed such suggestions/ideas with the help of mainstream media, until now that is, those social and environmental ideas are mainstream thanks in no small part to Progressives, about 30 or so fully progressive politicians are now in seats of power which is great    

When I talk about great leaders and Biden not being one of them, that is my point.. at this stage of negotiations it's about private talks particularly as its 2 Dems that are holding up the progress, so it's only logical the leader of the Dems (Biden) has pivotal/important input, you ask me about what specifically Biden should say in those negotiations, how can I, I'm not in those negotiations, that's totally unrealistic for me to say what he needs to say to individuals at specific moments in a negotiation behind close doors, be reasonable 

The Climate crisis wont stop its march, our leaders cant just sit on their hands with this one, the system will collapse, power will change hands 

It is fast becoming Game Over for the Dems as the people are getting less and less hope of improvement/support in their lives seeing the Dems as keeping the status quo, seeing no hope of change, having the Reps replacing them in 22 and 24 will be a disaster