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Ka-pi96 said:

Question to those defending the gun-weilding psycho...

Would you be defending him if he were a muslim jihadist that had walked into a church with an assault rifle who then shot people "defending" himself when they chased him? Because it's pretty much the same situation as that...

I believe a similar situation would be crazy Christians invading a muslim neighborhood and destroying their hard built businesses, they called the police and the police could/did not want to do anything, also the media would be defending the crazy Christians saying it was just a peaceful protest. Then one muslim guy just got enough of it and came to defend the area using his constitutional rights. Stupid decision, of course. Then the muslim guy, before shooting got attacked and felt threatened. He remembers the scenes form other "peaceful protests" what happens when the crazy Christian mob bring one of their enemies to the ground. Then the shot the mob to save his life. Also turn out the people he shot were not "nice" crazy christians at all, the people he shot were pedophiles and wife beaters.

Then.. in this situation, yeah I would agree with the muslim jihadist, although the decision to come by to defend his stuff from the crazy christians ignored by the police and supported by the media, with an AR15, was a pretty terrible idea. Better stay home and start your life again with what is left from the peaceful protests. Your life is more important.



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Runa216 said:
KLAMarine said:

Perhaps they view your proposals as resulting in greater inequality, not less?

I don't really care what they think, that's not where the research, historical precedent, and science lead. Both sides of this discussion are not equal, one side is correct and the other is incorrect. Feelings aside, I go where the science leads, I go where the studies tell me to go. I believe that which has the most supporting evidence. I go with the views that do the most good for the most amount of people, and I use actual logic and reason to come to those conclusions, not my reactionary fears and concerns about change. 

Considering you have comedian John Oliver imbuing you with your intelligence, I worry what this logic, evidence, and these studies look like.



KLAMarine said:
Runa216 said:

I don't really care what they think, that's not where the research, historical precedent, and science lead. Both sides of this discussion are not equal, one side is correct and the other is incorrect. Feelings aside, I go where the science leads, I go where the studies tell me to go. I believe that which has the most supporting evidence. I go with the views that do the most good for the most amount of people, and I use actual logic and reason to come to those conclusions, not my reactionary fears and concerns about change. 

Considering you have comedian John Oliver imbuing you with your intelligence, I worry what this logic, evidence, and these studies look like.

That's the angle you're taking here? Dude's a comedian therefore his points aren't valid? 

Okay, let me explain something to you, it's the difference between critical thought and mental gymnastics. Both require an equal amount of work, so one might think they are equal, but one of them is putting in effort to cherry-pick data and seek out the answers you want while the other way around by doing research and then coming to a conclusion based on that. Mental Gymnastics are when you have a point you prove and work your way backwards, but critical thinking starts you at a neutral point and takes you where the research goes. 

If you honestly think that I don't independently investigate the claims I see and hear on shows like Last Week Tonight, then I don't know what to say to you. I don't GET my news from Last Week Tonight, but I do find it a digestible and entertaining way to get what I've found to be accurate information. Comedy shows are good at this because they often balance the complicated act of being entertaining and engaging while also being informative. If you honestly feel that a show can't do both, or that being funny precludes his information from being correct, then I think your problems run deeper than you'd like to admit. 

And seriously, all things aside I'd still respect John Oliver over The National Vanguard. 



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Runa216 said:
KLAMarine said:

Considering you have comedian John Oliver imbuing you with your intelligence, I worry what this logic, evidence, and these studies look like.

That's the angle you're taking here? Dude's a comedian therefore his points aren't valid? 

Okay, let me explain something to you, it's the difference between critical thought and mental gymnastics. Both require an equal amount of work, so one might think they are equal, but one of them is putting in effort to cherry-pick data and seek out the answers you want while the other way around by doing research and then coming to a conclusion based on that. Mental Gymnastics are when you have a point you prove and work your way backwards, but critical thinking starts you at a neutral point and takes you where the research goes. 

If you honestly think that I don't independently investigate the claims I see and hear on shows like Last Week Tonight, then I don't know what to say to you. I don't GET my news from Last Week Tonight, but I do find it a digestible and entertaining way to get what I've found to be accurate information. Comedy shows are good at this because they often balance the complicated act of being entertaining and engaging while also being informative. If you honestly feel that a show can't do both, or that being funny precludes his information from being correct, then I think your problems run deeper than you'd like to admit. 

And seriously, all things aside I'd still respect John Oliver over The National Vanguard. 

It worries me that in such a small snippet of Oliver's show, I've already found an instance of cherry picking.

It tells me his show will sometimes set aside honest assessments for spicy one-liners.

As respectable as tabloid gossip or click bait article titles... I do hope your independent investigations are free from such faulty logic.



Ka-pi96 said:
KLAMarine said:

Perhaps they view your proposals as resulting in greater inequality, not less?

How exactly does allowing gay marriage result in greater inequality?

How exactly does allowing abortions result in greater inequality?

How exactly does better training/recruitment and less immunity from corruption in the police force result in greater inequality?

How exactly does wasting taxpayer money on a giant wall result in greater inequality?

How exactly does preventing mentally ill or potentially violent people from getting hold of deadly weapons result in greater inequality?

How exactly does everybody having access to healthcare result in greater inequality?

Well, if you suddenly treat people like human beings it's really offensive to people who believe humans should be treated like trash. And if you constantly consider people humans then it's really not fair to the people who are against it. You see the imbalance here?

It's not really equality unless you treat humans like trash at least half of the time. Or in the case of the US half of the people all of the time.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

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Ka-pi96 said:

How exactly does preventing mentally ill or potentially violent people from getting hold of deadly weapons result in greater inequality?

Isn't this a definition of inequality? :P



Ka-pi96 said:
KLAMarine said:

Perhaps they view your proposals as resulting in greater inequality, not less?

How exactly does allowing gay marriage result in greater inequality?

How exactly does allowing abortions result in greater inequality?

How exactly does better training/recruitment and less immunity from corruption in the police force result in greater inequality?

How exactly does wasting taxpayer money on a giant wall result in greater inequality?

How exactly does preventing mentally ill or potentially violent people from getting hold of deadly weapons result in greater inequality?

How exactly does everybody having access to healthcare result in greater inequality?

Looking at these questions, only the gay marriage issue seems to have to do with equality.

For the record, I may agree with some Republican proposals but I certainly don't agree with denying gays the right to marry.

But also I really don't like policies like affirmative action which seeks to consider variables other than individual merit in admissions or employment.

You could say I'm somewhere in the middle, politically.



KLAMarine said:
Ka-pi96 said:

How exactly does allowing gay marriage result in greater inequality?

How exactly does allowing abortions result in greater inequality?

How exactly does better training/recruitment and less immunity from corruption in the police force result in greater inequality?

How exactly does wasting taxpayer money on a giant wall result in greater inequality?

How exactly does preventing mentally ill or potentially violent people from getting hold of deadly weapons result in greater inequality?

How exactly does everybody having access to healthcare result in greater inequality?

Looking at these questions, only the gay marriage issue seems to have to do with equality.

For the record, I may agree with some Republican proposals but I certainly don't agree with denying gays the right to marry.

But also I really don't like policies like affirmative action which seeks to consider variables other than individual merit in admissions or employment.

You could say I'm somewhere in the middle, politically.

I hope you don't think affirmative action exists solely as a way to get minorities jobs over whites or something. The program and concept was implemented not to create imbalance, but to encourage employers to diversify since that just wasn't happening; it was a response to the reality that minorities USED to be passed over due to, you know, being minorities. It was to combat the then-existing blatant inequality in the workplace, and the theory set forth was that in a truly equal world where, say, 70% were white, 15% were latino, and 15% were latino, that a large company needed to also represent that number, because if they didn't then it would mean there must be some prejudice going on. Which was 100% true back then (And clearly even today)

White Nationalists and lowkey racists tend to use this as an excuse to demean minorities, tacitly endorsing the idea that whites are inherently superior and that the only possible explanation is that affirmative action is taking away jobs rightly deserved to white folks. While it's certainly true that there WILL be examples of this working against some people who are rightly better qualified regardless of who or what they are, it doesn't happen nearly as often as you might think. Every system CAN be abused, there's no doubt about that and I'm not pretending this is not a concern, but this narrative about Affirmative Action being a way to fuck white people over is just...it's not okay. 

Basically what it boils down to it: White folks have been in control so long that the idea of anything existing that could challenge that power is scary. And when white people have been so goddamn terrible to every minority under the sun for as long as there's been white people and sun and non-white people existing in the same area, it's a terrifying prospect. Especially when you consider the counterbalances needed to make things fair. So many people loudly sharethe idea that 'I'm not a racist, so why do I have to face reparations for my ancestors', and I get it. I do. I didn't desecrate the burial sites of the first nations. I didn't enslave black people. I'm not the type to belittle women and I'm certainly not the type to gay bash. Hell, I've fucked more guys than girls. 

But the reality is that we can't trust those in power to not discriminate. They did that for ages, and it literally never worked. Even when the LAW mandated equal treatment, minorities were still subjugated. BLM and many of these other SJW initiates are a living response to the idea that, while the LAW states that all people are equal, the reality is that this is not the case. As long as bigotry continues to exist and those in power continue to use it to their advantage, we NEED things like Affirmative action to counterbalance it. While it's not a perfect system, we don't live in a vaccuum where we can trust those in power to not abuse it. 

Affirmative action and diversity inclusion in all manner of life are needed. If we don't push for these agendas, history tells us that those in power will continue to discriminate against minorities and silence the voices of those not white, male, and straight. You can argue all you want, this is the reality of the world we live in.



My Console Library:

PS5, Switch, XSX

PS4, PS3, PS2, PS1, WiiU, Wii, GCN, N64 SNES, XBO, 360

3DS, DS, GBA, Vita, PSP, Android

Runa216 said:
KLAMarine said:

Looking at these questions, only the gay marriage issue seems to have to do with equality.

For the record, I may agree with some Republican proposals but I certainly don't agree with denying gays the right to marry.

But also I really don't like policies like affirmative action which seeks to consider variables other than individual merit in admissions or employment.

You could say I'm somewhere in the middle, politically.

I hope you don't think affirmative action exists solely as a way to get minorities jobs over whites or something. The program and concept was implemented not to create imbalance, but to encourage employers to diversify since that just wasn't happening; it was a response to the reality that minorities USED to be passed over due to, you know, being minorities. It was to combat the then-existing blatant inequality in the workplace, and the theory set forth was that in a truly equal world where, say, 70% were white, 15% were latino, and 15% were latino, that a large company needed to also represent that number, because if they didn't then it would mean there must be some prejudice going on. Which was 100% true back then (And clearly even today)

White Nationalists and lowkey racists tend to use this as an excuse to demean minorities, tacitly endorsing the idea that whites are inherently superior and that the only possible explanation is that affirmative action is taking away jobs rightly deserved to white folks. While it's certainly true that there WILL be examples of this working against some people who are rightly better qualified regardless of who or what they are, it doesn't happen nearly as often as you might think. Every system CAN be abused, there's no doubt about that and I'm not pretending this is not a concern, but this narrative about Affirmative Action being a way to fuck white people over is just...it's not okay. 

Basically what it boils down to it: White folks have been in control so long that the idea of anything existing that could challenge that power is scary. And when white people have been so goddamn terrible to every minority under the sun for as long as there's been white people and sun and non-white people existing in the same area, it's a terrifying prospect. Especially when you consider the counterbalances needed to make things fair. So many people loudly sharethe idea that 'I'm not a racist, so why do I have to face reparations for my ancestors', and I get it. I do. I didn't desecrate the burial sites of the first nations. I didn't enslave black people. I'm not the type to belittle women and I'm certainly not the type to gay bash. Hell, I've fucked more guys than girls. 

But the reality is that we can't trust those in power to not discriminate. They did that for ages, and it literally never worked. Even when the LAW mandated equal treatment, minorities were still subjugated. BLM and many of these other SJW initiates are a living response to the idea that, while the LAW states that all people are equal, the reality is that this is not the case. As long as bigotry continues to exist and those in power continue to use it to their advantage, we NEED things like Affirmative action to counterbalance it. While it's not a perfect system, we don't live in a vaccuum where we can trust those in power to not abuse it. 

Affirmative action and diversity inclusion in all manner of life are needed. If we don't push for these agendas, history tells us that those in power will continue to discriminate against minorities and silence the voices of those not white, male, and straight. You can argue all you want, this is the reality of the world we live in.

"It was to combat the then-existing blatant inequality in the workplace, and the theory set forth was that in a truly equal world where, say, 70% were white, 15% were latino, and 15% were latino, that a large company needed to also represent that number, because if they didn't then it would mean there must be some prejudice going on. Which was 100% true back then (And clearly even today)"

>I find this theory flawed: 50% of the entire world is male and the other half is female. I look at the membership of vgchartz and I see men outnumber women at a ratio of about 5 to 1.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/members.php?name=&gender=Male&keyword=&country=&type=&order=Last+logged+in

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/members.php?name=&gender=Female&keyword=&country=&type=&order=Last+logged+in

Males comprise about 83% of the members of this website, a figure seriously distant from the 50% global figure.

Am I to conclude vgchartz is conspiring against female members? That there is a prejudice against women that drives them away?

I don't think so. I think, on average, more men than women are interested in video games thus we end up with this disparity: men are more likely to explore a website like this one and then create an account. I find it too hasty that we conclude there is wrongdoing based solely on such a superficial disparity.



KLAMarine said:

"It was to combat the then-existing blatant inequality in the workplace, and the theory set forth was that in a truly equal world where, say, 70% were white, 15% were latino, and 15% were latino, that a large company needed to also represent that number, because if they didn't then it would mean there must be some prejudice going on. Which was 100% true back then (And clearly even today)"

>I find this theory flawed: 50% of the entire world is male and the other half is female. I look at the membership of vgchartz and I see men outnumber women at a ratio of about 5 to 1.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/members.php?name=&gender=Male&keyword=&country=&type=&order=Last+logged+in

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/members.php?name=&gender=Female&keyword=&country=&type=&order=Last+logged+in

Males comprise about 83% of the members of this website, a figure seriously distant from the 50% global figure.

Am I to conclude vgchartz is conspiring against female members? That there is a prejudice against women that drives them away?

I don't think so. I think, on average, more men than women are interested in video games thus we end up with this disparity: men are more likely to explore a website like this one and then create an account. I find it too hasty that we conclude there is wrongdoing based solely on such a superficial disparity.

Happenstance is not a real concept, stop spouting such blasphemy. Mr. Runa216altaccountsIpretendaresepratepeople is totally correct, my inability to find success in the workplace is entirely due to having more melanin in my skin. Some bigots will claim it's because I have poor work ethic, don't get a long well with people, have a history of failure, etc. but they're just trying to distract from the real issue! If not for the blatant and rampant systemic racism in this country, I would totally be a millionaire by now! Now I'ma go destroy some random property and disturb the peace until those privileged white people bow down and give me the life that I'm owed.