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Forums - Politics - Active shooter situation reported in Christchurch, New Zealand

jason1637 said:
the-pi-guy said:

The issue is that for every instance of "good guy with a gun stops bad guy with a gun", there's 10 instances where there's no way that could have happened in the first place.  (And other countries seem to have more success with preventing those in the first place).  

Is there really? Im really curious whats the ratio between people protecting themselves with guns to people using guns for criminal acts.

Most people have their gun locked or hidded away,it needs luck to be near it when it is needed and even when you can get a hold of it you also potentionally make yourself a target of more violent actions if you can not act fast enough.



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Immersiveunreality said:
jason1637 said:

Is there really? Im really curious whats the ratio between people protecting themselves with guns to people using guns for criminal acts.

Most people have their gun locked or hidded away,it needs luck to be near it when it is needed and even when you can get a hold of it you also potentionally make yourself a target of more violent actions if you can not act fast enough.

Yeah but that's around the house. Some states have open carry so there are probably lots of people that carry their guns around too.



deskpro2k3 said:
o_O.Q said:

can you give me some examples of where candace owens advocates for violence against muslims?

i asked spokentruth and apparently he can't find any

source: https://www.businessinsider.my/candace-owens-manifesto-new-zealand-mosque-terror-2019-3/

Here is some examples (Tweets) from Candace Owen that would inspire a lunatic to do something against a specific group, specifically Muslims.

uh... she said france should do something about their declining birthrate(arguments that i've seen also made about japan very recently) and she supported the NRA... can you explain for me how that equates to advocating for violence against muslims?



o_O.Q said:
deskpro2k3 said:

source: https://www.businessinsider.my/candace-owens-manifesto-new-zealand-mosque-terror-2019-3/

Here is some examples (Tweets) from Candace Owen that would inspire a lunatic to do something against a specific group, specifically Muslims.

uh... she said france should do something about their declining birthrate(arguments that i've seen also made about japan very recently) and she supported the NRA... can you explain for me how that equates to advocating for violence against muslims?

"If France wants to build an army to defend itself against anything, it ought to be the declining birth rate of its people. All signs indicate that it will be a Muslim majority country in just 40 years!"

So in that quote your reading is that Candace is saying France should build an army of fertile boners so that they can up the birth rate? I'd agree with you if she hadn't put in the specific "they'll be muslim in 40 years" at the end. Because the thing about talking about using an army to defend against something, and that thing being the possibility of a Muslim majority country, is that armies usually defend things by destroying the unwanted thing, not by procreating.

Similarly, if you were saying that Japan needs to be concerned about their birthrate and build an army or they'll all be Chinese in 40 years I'd think you had an issue with the Chinese and were advocating a militaristic solution. 



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HylianSwordsman said:
o_O.Q said:

can you give me some examples of where candace owens advocates for violence against muslims?

i asked spokentruth and apparently he can't find any

The closest I find with a quick Google search is this 

She doesn't outright call for genocide of Muslims, but when she first says that France should form an army, then that the reason for the army is a "declining birth rate", then says that there will be a Muslim majority in a way that suggests having a Muslim majority would be bad, the whole sentence comes together to sound like she's saying that she advocates for the formation of an army to genocide Muslims so as to prevent them from becoming a majority. Again, it doesn't outright say that, but you could imagine how in the shooter's mind, he might interpret it that way.

"She doesn't outright call for genocide of Muslims, but when she first says that France should form an army"

and you seriously believe she was saying france should build an army to prevent falling birthrates literally?

ok lets go there, how do you fight declining birth rates with a literal army?

 

"hen says that there will be a Muslim majority in a way that suggests having a Muslim majority would be bad"

and in her opinion that would be bad, so what?

are you in favour of expanding the influence of christianity in the united states? or would you rather reduce the influence of religion?

 

"the whole sentence comes together to sound like she's saying that she advocates for the formation of an army to genocide Muslims"

it really does not, it only does to people with an agenda, but ok lets go there again, how does committing acts of genocide against muslims result in reversing declining birth rates?

 

"Again, it doesn't outright say that, but you could imagine how in the shooter's mind, he might interpret it that way."

have you ever been mean to someone? called them names(idiot,stupid...whatever)? suppose a mad man with a gun overheard you 

if the "idiot,stupid person...whatever" gets shot, are you responsible?



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Torillian said:
o_O.Q said:

uh... she said france should do something about their declining birthrate(arguments that i've seen also made about japan very recently) and she supported the NRA... can you explain for me how that equates to advocating for violence against muslims?

"If France wants to build an army to defend itself against anything, it ought to be the declining birth rate of its people. All signs indicate that it will be a Muslim majority country in just 40 years!"

So in that quote your reading is that Candace is saying France should build an army of fertile boners so that they can up the birth rate? I'd agree with you if she hadn't put in the specific "they'll be muslim in 40 years" at the end. Because the thing about talking about using an army to defend against something, and that thing being the possibility of a Muslim majority country, is that armies usually defend things by destroying the unwanted thing, not by procreating.

Similarly, if you were saying that Japan needs to be concerned about their birthrate and build an army or they'll all be Chinese in 40 years I'd think you had an issue with the Chinese and were advocating a militaristic solution. 

if her argument was that france should build an army to attack muslims why didn't she just say that instead of talking about birth rate?

and you seriously take everything someone says completely literally like this?

when people talk about combating declining birth rates in japan do you believe they are advocating for the mass rape of japanese women?

i don't seriously think you are being completely sincere here otherwise i really don't see how you'd be able to function in normal society since you'd be seeing calls for violence everywhere



Torillian said:
o_O.Q said:

uh... she said france should do something about their declining birthrate(arguments that i've seen also made about japan very recently) and she supported the NRA... can you explain for me how that equates to advocating for violence against muslims?

"If France wants to build an army to defend itself against anything, it ought to be the declining birth rate of its people. All signs indicate that it will be a Muslim majority country in just 40 years!"

So in that quote your reading is that Candace is saying France should build an army of fertile boners so that they can up the birth rate? I'd agree with you if she hadn't put in the specific "they'll be muslim in 40 years" at the end. Because the thing about talking about using an army to defend against something, and that thing being the possibility of a Muslim majority country, is that armies usually defend things by destroying the unwanted thing, not by procreating.

Similarly, if you were saying that Japan needs to be concerned about their birthrate and build an army or they'll all be Chinese in 40 years I'd think you had an issue with the Chinese and were advocating a militaristic solution. 

Yeah but just because armies usually defend by destroying does not change the context of its use in Owens tweet,cause she specificaly mentioned the procreating we cannot make it mean anything different by taking that aspect away.

Other than that, Candice Owens is not the smartest when it comes to tweets and in general saying things that can be used against her.



o_O.Q said:

"She doesn't outright call for genocide of Muslims, but when she first says that France should form an army"

and you seriously believe she was saying france should build an army to prevent falling birthrates literally?

ok lets go there, how do you fight declining birth rates with a literal army?

No, I'm saying the shooter might have thought that. He listed Candace Owens as an inspiration. I'm just saying, what else could he have been referring to?

"hen says that there will be a Muslim majority in a way that suggests having a Muslim majority would be bad"

and in her opinion that would be bad, so what?

are you in favour of expanding the influence of christianity in the united states? or would you rather reduce the influence of religion?

I'm trying to remain neutral here, but I actually do not like the culture of Islam and would not like to see it spread, no. Christianity has some values I like, but they're already supported by our secular founding documents the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, so I'd rather separation of church and state.

"the whole sentence comes together to sound like she's saying that she advocates for the formation of an army to genocide Muslims"

it really does not, it only does to people with an agenda, but ok lets go there again, how does committing acts of genocide against muslims result in reversing declining birth rates?

And that shooter clearly had an agenda, no? It doesn't reverse declining birth rates, which is why in my opinion, her tweet here doesn't even make sense, but I'm trying to guess at why the shooter might have looked to here.

"Again, it doesn't outright say that, but you could imagine how in the shooter's mind, he might interpret it that way."

have you ever been mean to someone? called them names(idiot,stupid...whatever)? suppose a mad man with a gun overheard you 

if the "idiot,stupid person...whatever" gets shot, are you responsible?

Oh no I'm not arguing that she's responsible at all. Nor Pewdiepie, nor Philip Defranco, or any of the other people I've seen being blamed. I'm not okay with that, it upsets me. I was just answering your call for an example of her talking about Muslims in a way that the shooter might be inspired by.



o_O.Q said:
Torillian said:

"If France wants to build an army to defend itself against anything, it ought to be the declining birth rate of its people. All signs indicate that it will be a Muslim majority country in just 40 years!"

So in that quote your reading is that Candace is saying France should build an army of fertile boners so that they can up the birth rate? I'd agree with you if she hadn't put in the specific "they'll be muslim in 40 years" at the end. Because the thing about talking about using an army to defend against something, and that thing being the possibility of a Muslim majority country, is that armies usually defend things by destroying the unwanted thing, not by procreating.

Similarly, if you were saying that Japan needs to be concerned about their birthrate and build an army or they'll all be Chinese in 40 years I'd think you had an issue with the Chinese and were advocating a militaristic solution. 

if her argument was that france should build an army to attack muslims why didn't she just say that instead of talking about birth rate?

and you seriously take everything someone says completely literally like this?

when people talk about combating declining birth rates in japan do you believe they are advocating for the mass rape of japanese women?

Because she likes to dog whistle, because the organization she works for wouldn't abide for obvious racist shit but will allow the less obvious? Got me, not everyone who believes in awful shit wants to broadcast it to the world in an obvious way. 

I'm giving you how her post could be viewed as anti-muslim and advocate violence against them without a crazy amount of reinterpretation. Now I don't think the shooter is being genuine when he says Candice was in inspiration but this idea that she's never said anything on Muslims or the second amendment is just stupid.

"“LOL! FACT: I’ve never created any content espousing my views on the 2nd Amendment or Islam,”"

fucking ridiculous.  

Again, if they said they need to combat them because otherwise they'll be majority Chinese, and that if anything they need to make an army to combat being majority Chinese I could pretty easily come to the conclusion that they were saying the army should kick out the Chinese that apparently being majority of would be bad. 



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Immersiveunreality said:
Torillian said:

"If France wants to build an army to defend itself against anything, it ought to be the declining birth rate of its people. All signs indicate that it will be a Muslim majority country in just 40 years!"

So in that quote your reading is that Candace is saying France should build an army of fertile boners so that they can up the birth rate? I'd agree with you if she hadn't put in the specific "they'll be muslim in 40 years" at the end. Because the thing about talking about using an army to defend against something, and that thing being the possibility of a Muslim majority country, is that armies usually defend things by destroying the unwanted thing, not by procreating.

Similarly, if you were saying that Japan needs to be concerned about their birthrate and build an army or they'll all be Chinese in 40 years I'd think you had an issue with the Chinese and were advocating a militaristic solution. 

Yeah but just because armies usually defend by destroying does not change the context of its use in Owens tweet,cause she specificaly mentioned the procreating we cannot make it mean anything different by taking that aspect away.

Other than that, Candice Owens is not the smartest when it comes to tweets and in general saying things that can be used against her.

I guess I just disagree with this notion that there's no way one can read it that she's advocating violence against muslims. You start talking about armies in the same breath as you talk about how shitty it would be if France were muslim majority and I think you can make a pretty easy connection. Again, I don't think the shooter is being genuine when he mentions Candice, but I also don't agree with the idea that she's never said anything problematic in these realms. 

She's an idiot, no argument there. 



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