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Forums - Sony Discussion - PS5 Coming at the End of 2020 According to Analyst: High-Spec Hardware for Under $500

 

Price, SKUs, specs ?

Only Base Model, $399, 9-10TF GPU, 16GB RAM 24 30.00%
 
Only Base Model, $449, 10-12TF GPU, 16GB RAM 13 16.25%
 
Only Base Model, $499, 12-14TF GPU, 24GB RAM 21 26.25%
 
Base Model $399 and PREMIUM $499 specs Ans3 10 12.50%
 
Base Mod $399 / PREM $549, >14TF 24GB RAM 5 6.25%
 
Base Mod $449 / PREM $599, the absolute Elite 7 8.75%
 
Total:80
DonFerrari on 16 February 2019
Intrinsic said:
DonFerrari said:

We know that doesn't matter how much RAM we give devs they will manage to fill it =p

But I can understand that for what is expected of the HW 16 is enough (as long as they either keep OS under 4, or just give it a dedicated pool, I also liked the idea of some nand memory for the OS as well, something cheap and fit).

Oh thats true... devs will no doubt find a way to use all that but yh, the consoles don't need that.

You can also rest easy on the dedicated pool for OS RAM. I am also sure its happening being that its already happening with the PS4pro. Sony added 1GB of DDR3 RAM in the PS4pro exclusive for the OS freeing up 1GB of GDDR5 RAM. Half of that goes to games allowing 5.5GB of RAM available to devs and half is reserved as OS VRAM allowing the OS be rendered in 4k. So all Cerny has t do is pretty much continue what he is already doing.  

Dedicated and cheaper.

like small ssd space for OS with cheap and fast enough ram for the OS. Then hybrid or regular hdd with 2TB and the good ram for the games.

for me there is no point on using good expensive ram on the os.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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Intrinsic on 16 February 2019
Nate4Drake said:

1. Ok my buddies, take it as a grain of salt; these are the latest leaks from a small EU third party developer.


2. GPU 7nm Navi arhitecture around 14TF,its gonna be powerful and power efficient,


3. 24GB Gddr6 + 4gb ddr4 for os, we have 32 gb dev kits

https://pastebin.com/PY9vaTsR

  1. So third party devs already have dev kits? Or they have a moving target spec. Cause If the PS5 is set to come out anytime next year I don't see devs having dev kits by now.

  2. this will be either a 72CU@1500Mhz GPU or a 80CU@1385Mh. Both configs I believe are possible if lookin at the same kinda progression seen from 28Nm to 16nm and from that to 7nm. Also expected if AMD has broken that 64CU limitation with Navi. 

    those clocks are high though, which makes me lean towards the 80CU setup as its usually better to have more CUs running at a lower clock than less at a higher clock. It would also suggest that Navi is very efficient, we have nvidia cards that clock as high as 2Ghz and there are rumblings that desktop Navi cards should be expected to clock that high..... so a downclocked Navi at ~1300Mhz down from 1800-2000Mhz doesn't sound outta reason.

  3. I expect the 4GB DDR4 OS RAM. I don't know about the 24GB GDDR6 though..... thats either 672GB/s (14Gbs chips), 768GB/s (16Gbs chips) or 864GB/s (1 Gbs chips)  
Honestly...... its like someone just took the XB1X, doubled the GPU, upped the clock by like 10%, swapped GDDR5 with GDDR6 and called it a day.
DonFerrari said:
Intrinsic said:

Oh thats true... devs will no doubt find a way to use all that but yh, the consoles don't need that.

You can also rest easy on the dedicated pool for OS RAM. I am also sure its happening being that its already happening with the PS4pro. Sony added 1GB of DDR3 RAM in the PS4pro exclusive for the OS freeing up 1GB of GDDR5 RAM. Half of that goes to games allowing 5.5GB of RAM available to devs and half is reserved as OS VRAM allowing the OS be rendered in 4k. So all Cerny has t do is pretty much continue what he is already doing.  

Dedicated and cheaper.

like small ssd space for OS with cheap and fast enough ram for the OS. Then hybrid or regular hdd with 2TB and the good ram for the games.

for me there is no point on using good expensive ram on the os.

There has to be a god chunk of SSD space for games too though. Like a scratch drive. I can see them having 240GB of SSD embedded storage.



Nate4Drake on 16 February 2019
BraLoD said:
Nate4Drake said:

Ok my buddies, take it as a grain of salt; these are the latest leaks from a small EU third party developer.

""I'm a third party small developer from EU,for the last 8 months i've been helping a well known company in a AAA game development that is set to release in 2020 as a lunch game for PS5.

Some infos that i'd like to share that are 99% correct(I say 99% because small incremental hardware change can occur till 2020, although specs are set in stone).

-PS5 official info from Sony somewhere around next E3(Sony will not be participating on E3),i'd say Q2 2019 small reveal

-PS5 release March 2020 or November 2020,not yet finalized

-backward compatible

-physical games & ps store

-ps plus & ps plus premium ( premium-beta early access,create private servers,

-specs CPU 7nm ryzen 8 core 16 threads,unknown speed
GPU 7nm Navi arhitecture around 14TF,its gonna be powerful and power efficient,Sony working with Amd for Navi,some sort of Ray Tracing but will not focus on that,more focus with VR and 4k,much better bandwith overall

24GB Gddr6 + 4gb ddr4 for os, we have 32 gb dev kits
-2tb hdd some sort of nand flash
-8k upscaling

-PSVR2 in 2020 also,reveal with ps5,big resolution boost probably 2560x1440,120hz,220 field of view,eye tracking,wireless,battery life 4-5 hours,headphones integrated,less motion sickenss,no breaker box,much less cable management,much more focus on VR for aaa games,price around 250$

-dualshock 5,some sort of camera inside for VR,more analog precision for fps games,something similiar to steam analog trackpad

.........""

https://pastebin.com/PY9vaTsR

Everytime you post a rumour it gets closer and closer to what I've been saying.

I know they are just rumours tho, lol.

Believe me, I was very close to quote you on this :D   I've been thinking about your post and specs prediction.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

   OK, who of you has enough technical understanding to explain to me the content of a recent PATENT from Mark Cerny, in few basic words ?!   

 From what I have understood, It concerns " the heavy use of caches for GPU operations", in order to greatly speed-up graphics application; give me a break if I'm wrong.

""According to aspects of the present disclosure, a computer graphics processing method may include writing vertex indices output from a vertex shader to a cache; accessing the vertex indices written to the cache with a pixel shader; and accessing vertex parameter values associated with the vertex indices from a memory unit with the pixel shader.""

  https://patents.justia.com/patent/20190035050

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  Plenty of leaks will come out, as expected; some are in line with the expectations of some of us, and the same sound "too much" for others; what I find interesting is discussing about new tech which can be related to Next Gen, I love this.

Last edited by Nate4Drake - on 16 February 2019

”Every great dream begins with a dreamer. Always remember, you have within you the strength, the patience, and the passion to reach for the stars to change the world.”

Harriet Tubman.

DonFerrari on 16 February 2019
Intrinsic said:
Nate4Drake said:

1. Ok my buddies, take it as a grain of salt; these are the latest leaks from a small EU third party developer.


2. GPU 7nm Navi arhitecture around 14TF,its gonna be powerful and power efficient,


3. 24GB Gddr6 + 4gb ddr4 for os, we have 32 gb dev kits

https://pastebin.com/PY9vaTsR

 

  1. So third party devs already have dev kits? Or they have a moving target spec. Cause If the PS5 is set to come out anytime next year I don't see devs having dev kits by now.

  2. this will be either a 72CU@1500Mhz GPU or a 80CU@1385Mh. Both configs I believe are possible if lookin at the same kinda progression seen from 28Nm to 16nm and from that to 7nm. Also expected if AMD has broken that 64CU limitation with Navi. 

    those clocks are high though, which makes me lean towards the 80CU setup as its usually better to have more CUs running at a lower clock than less at a higher clock. It would also suggest that Navi is very efficient, we have nvidia cards that clock as high as 2Ghz and there are rumblings that desktop Navi cards should be expected to clock that high..... so a downclocked Navi at ~1300Mhz down from 1800-2000Mhz doesn't sound outta reason.

  3. I expect the 4GB DDR4 OS RAM. I don't know about the 24GB GDDR6 though..... thats either 672GB/s (14Gbs chips), 768GB/s (16Gbs chips) or 864GB/s (1 Gbs chips)  
Honestly...... its like someone just took the XB1X, doubled the GPU, upped the clock by like 10%, swapped GDDR5 with GDDR6 and called it a day.

 

DonFerrari said:

Dedicated and cheaper.

like small ssd space for OS with cheap and fast enough ram for the OS. Then hybrid or regular hdd with 2TB and the good ram for the games.

for me there is no point on using good expensive ram on the os.

There has to be a god chunk of SSD space for games too though. Like a scratch drive. I can see them having 240GB of SSD embedded storage.

For me either 240 embedded and regular HDd or 24 or the like embedded with hybrid whatever is cheaper long term.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Intrinsic on 16 February 2019
Nate4Drake said:

   OK, who of you has enough technical understanding to explain to me the content of a recent PATENT from Mark Cerny, in few basic words ?!   

 From what I have understood, It concerns " the heavy use of caches for GPU operations", in order to greatly speed-up graphics application; give me a break if I'm wrong.

""According to aspects of the present disclosure, a computer graphics processing method may include writing vertex indices output from a vertex shader to a cache; accessing the vertex indices written to the cache with a pixel shader; and accessing vertex parameter values associated with the vertex indices from a memory unit with the pixel shader.""

  https://patents.justia.com/patent/20190035050

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  Plenty of leaks will come out, as expected; some are in line with the expectations of some of us, and the same sound "too much" for others; what I find interesting is discussing about new tech which can be related with Next Gen, I love this.

 

Sounds to me like a way of making the GPU do more than its supposed to do by off loading typical vertex tasks onto a pixel shader. So its not abut the cache per say but abut a way to handle more vertex operations than you are supposed to be able to. Vertex shaders basically transpose the rendered scene(rasterization) to a pixel grid fr your display. Pixel shaders come into play when said grid has been resolved. 

So this sounds like a way to make the vertex tasks faster by enabling the pixel shaders to do some of the work.



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zorg1000 on 16 February 2019
Intrinsic said:

 

  1. So third party devs already have dev kits? Or they have a moving target spec. Cause If the PS5 is set to come out anytime next year I don't see devs having dev kits by now.

Maybe I'm not understanding you here, but you dont think dev's should have dev kits in 2019 if the console comes out in 2020? When should they get them then?



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

Nate4Drake on 16 February 2019
Intrinsic said:
Nate4Drake said:

Yep.  Cerny already made a step forward with PS4 PRO, so it sounds natural they will continue with that on PS5.   From the "leak" : Memory: 24GB - 20GB GDDR6 at 880Gb/s - 4GB DDR4 reserved for OS; is this kind of solution too costy ?  If you ask me, 20GB GDDR6 at 880Gb/s would be fantastic for gaming, and considering the life cycle has been lengthened lately.   Could be feasible ?  

20GB GDDR6 at 880GB/s isn't feasible to me. That would mean they are pushing the individual chips to 20Gbs. Which doesn't just sound complicated but as doesn't sound stable. Highest I see them going is with 16Gbs chips. Another thing is the cost of making a PCB with a 320bit bus. 

I mean they could do 20GB on a 320bit bus with 16Gbs chips and get 640GB/s and honestly I see that as the highest they would go. As for the OS Ram... anyway we spin it x amount DDR3/DDR4 will always cost less than the same x amount of GDDR6 RAM. So adding 4GB of DDR3/DDR4 will cost less than having 4GB more of GDDR6. And LPDDR4 is even cheaper, its bandwidth peaks at around 32GB/s which is mre than enough to run a OS and OS based apps like netflix, youtube, browsers.....etc. 

  There's also been a recent development which refers to GDDR6: 24GB on a 384bit bus can reach 864 GB/s.

 ""Samsung Officially Begins Mass Production of GDDR6 Memory – Reaching Speeds of Up To 18 Gbps and 16Gb Density To Produce High-End Graphics Cards With Up To 24 GB VRAM, 864 GB/s Bandwidth""

https://wccftech.com/samsung-gddr6-16gb-18gbps-mass-production-official/

 I can't wait for an Official announcement.   It cannot come soon enough.



”Every great dream begins with a dreamer. Always remember, you have within you the strength, the patience, and the passion to reach for the stars to change the world.”

Harriet Tubman.

Screenshot on 16 February 2019

I expect the next consoles to be slightly more powerful than the current Pro or the X and target 1080p not 4k.



Robert_Downey_Jr. on 16 February 2019
Nate4Drake said:
Intrinsic said:

20GB GDDR6 at 880GB/s isn't feasible to me. That would mean they are pushing the individual chips to 20Gbs. Which doesn't just sound complicated but as doesn't sound stable. Highest I see them going is with 16Gbs chips. Another thing is the cost of making a PCB with a 320bit bus. 

I mean they could do 20GB on a 320bit bus with 16Gbs chips and get 640GB/s and honestly I see that as the highest they would go. As for the OS Ram... anyway we spin it x amount DDR3/DDR4 will always cost less than the same x amount of GDDR6 RAM. So adding 4GB of DDR3/DDR4 will cost less than having 4GB more of GDDR6. And LPDDR4 is even cheaper, its bandwidth peaks at around 32GB/s which is mre than enough to run a OS and OS based apps like netflix, youtube, browsers.....etc. 

  There's also been a recent development which refers to GDDR6: 24GB on a 384bit bus can reach 864 GB/s.

 ""Samsung Officially Begins Mass Production of GDDR6 Memory – Reaching Speeds of Up To 18 Gbps and 16Gb Density To Produce High-End Graphics Cards With Up To 24 GB VRAM, 864 GB/s Bandwidth""

https://wccftech.com/samsung-gddr6-16gb-18gbps-mass-production-official/

 I can't wait for an Official announcement.   It cannot come soon enough.

I think business wise an announcement this year would be bad.  Unless they're simultaneously cutting PS4 price to $200 as a last surge for this holiday it'll kill sales to say "we've got a new system coming in early/late 2020 and it's only $100 more than our regular system right now."  If I'm the CEO of Sony I'm either doing the price cut and announcement at the same conference (around September is when I would have this conference) or wait until Feb. like they did last time and allow PS4 to be at the forefront of mindshare this holiday one more time.  Then release in September or October to get big first adopter sales in before resupplying for the holidays.



I am Iron Man

Intrinsic on 16 February 2019
zorg1000 said:
Intrinsic said:

 

  1. So third party devs already have dev kits? Or they have a moving target spec. Cause If the PS5 is set to come out anytime next year I don't see devs having dev kits by now.

Maybe I'm not understanding you here, but you dont think dev's should have dev kits in 2019 if the console comes out in 2020? When should they get them then?

Typically devs don't get final Dev kits until like 6 months before launch. PS4 final dev kits were sent out around may 2013. WiiU was may with the console releasing about 6 months later. So if the console is due out in say March 2020 then final kits would be main the rounds around september 2019. 

The devs would get target briefs though or even non finalized dev kits which are pretty much specialized PCs.