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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Update on Metroid Prime 4: Development restart. Retro Studios + Tanabe now working on it

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Wow this is a huge blow to Nintendo fandom. Its like if the last of us 2 didn't release until 2021



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ResilientFighter said:
Wow this is a huge blow to Nintendo fandom. Its like if the last of us 2 didn't release until 2021

Yeah this one stings a bit.  I mean if it means a better game, then I will be greatful in the end.  Until we have it though...yeah it stings...

 

Hopefully we at least get Prime Trilogy to soften the blow.



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AngryLittleAlchemist said:
curl-6 said:

Back in the 6th gen they had a ton of projects that stalled and got canned; Thunder Rally, Retro Football, Raven Blade, an unnamed action adventure title. They pulled themselves together and did well from Prime 2 to Tropical Freeze, but since then we've seen them yet again fall into many years of not only having nothing to show for themselves but according to rumor also having projects go off the rails. Then there was the incident last year where a couple of ex-employees alleged that behind closed doors the studio had become a circus, with poor management preventing anything getting done.

They're just not a studio I have any confidence in.

That's honestly a stretch at best. Those early 2000's projects you listed were all in the conceptual or early production phases, they were by no means games that were well into development or titles that had exhausted tons of resources. Many companies, including Nintendo, have cancelled projects at the conceptual or early stages of production, it doesn't mean a company is any less or more reliable as long as they aren't doing that for years. It's a pretty normal procedure in the gaming industry. 

So really, the point about their track record is pretty null and void. Being silent for a few years is not something which has been consistently replicated by Retro, so them being a studio which is consistently stuck in development hell isn't true. In fact, in order to even come to that conclusion, you first have to make the assumption that A ) They weren't working on multiple games and B ) that they weren't working on a singular project which, compared to their staff numbers and resources, was difficult to produce in the manner of only a few years. And all of this is also assuming they don't have a title coming out in the near future, for all we know they could be nearly done with their next game. 

So yeah, there's not really any evidence supporting this notion that Retro has a "track record" of development hell. They don't. 

That being said, being skeptical about Retro is understandable. Really, Retro having this game is no more or less reassuring to me than other studios creating the title. Because studios are more than just a brand name, they have a lot of baggage on top of that (like staff numbers, staff experience, resources, artistic direction, etc.). So i'm not particularly excited for Retro either, I'm just not negative towards it.

The fact they've gone more than 5 years without having anything to show for it is in itself proof that they're failing to manage development well. Well run studios who have things under control simply don't go dark for so long. Add to that the rumors of projects stuck in limbo (which historically has happened with Retro before) and the allegations from ex-employees and I simply don't see any reason to have faith in Retro's abilities any more.



curl-6 said:
AngryLittleAlchemist said:

What track record of this do they have prior to 2014? It honestly seems like a stretch to get all of this out of a few years, especially if they were working on more than one game.

Back in the 6th gen they had a ton of projects that stalled and got canned; Thunder Rally, Retro Football, Raven Blade, an unnamed action adventure title. They pulled themselves together and did well from Prime 2 to Tropical Freeze, but since then we've seen them yet again fall into many years of not only having nothing to show for themselves but according to rumor also having projects go off the rails Then there was the incident last year where a couple of ex-employees alleged that behind closed doors the studio had become a circus, with poor management preventing anything getting done.

They're just not a studio I have any confidence in.

They were a chaotic new studio in 1998-2000 and that has you worried? First of all, how many people do you think worked for Retro ~20 years ago are still there? Shouldn't the ~15 years of consistent output after that have put you at ease?

Sure, the last few years may have been rough and maybe the studio is a circus now but do you really think that 20 years ago when the studio first opened is at all relevant to their current issues?

It's nothing more than a coincidence.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

Shiken said:
ResilientFighter said:
Wow this is a huge blow to Nintendo fandom. Its like if the last of us 2 didn't release until 2021

Yeah this one stings a bit.  I mean if it means a better game, then I will be greatful in the end.  Until we have it though...yeah it stings...

 

Hopefully we at least get Prime Trilogy to soften the blow.

I have played the Trilogy release twice already, I think they should just port Federation Force to Switch. 



My bet with The_Liquid_Laser: I think the Switch won't surpass the PS2 as the best selling system of all time. If it does, I'll play a game of a list that The_Liquid_Laser will provide, I will have to play it for 50 hours or complete it, whatever comes first. 

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Metallox said:
Shiken said:

Yeah this one stings a bit.  I mean if it means a better game, then I will be greatful in the end.  Until we have it though...yeah it stings...

 

Hopefully we at least get Prime Trilogy to soften the blow.

I have played the Trilogy release twice already, I think they should just port Federation Force to Switch. 

You watch your damn mouth!



Nintendo Switch Friend Code: SW-5643-2927-1984

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curl-6 said:
The fact they've gone more than 5 years without having anything to show for it is in itself proof that they're failing to manage development well. Well run studios who have things under control simply don't go dark for so long. Add to that the rumors of projects stuck in limbo (which historically has happened with Retro before) and the allegations from ex-employees and I simply don't see any reason to have faith in Retro's abilities any more.

Ok, but that's not what we were discussing, was it? The reason why track records are important is because they allow us to look at consistent trends which happen over an entire portfolio. If you are just going to mention the last few years of Retro's existence, then don't bring up the entire track record. 

It doesn't even make sense, because you even comment on how Retro's ex-employees are talking bad about the studio after they left, but don't make the connection to your own example - that most of the people who might have made Retro a chaotic studio in it's early years aren't even there anymore. The phrase "it goes both ways" means something when you bring up slippery slope points like that. 

And again it hasn't happened "historically" with Retro. Projects which get cancelled in their early stages are not "historically" similar to being stuck on one or two projects for the span of years. That's a fault that Retro won't live down to those who are weary of them, but it's also one that has only happened once, albeit recently. So citing it as if it's happened multiple times is just trying to make your case sound better than it actually is. 

It's ok to not have faith in Retro, but at least be honest in your justification of it. The best reason to be weary of them is the one which is undeniable: they haven't released any new projects in years. That should be enough, really. 



zorg1000 said:
curl-6 said:

Back in the 6th gen they had a ton of projects that stalled and got canned; Thunder Rally, Retro Football, Raven Blade, an unnamed action adventure title. They pulled themselves together and did well from Prime 2 to Tropical Freeze, but since then we've seen them yet again fall into many years of not only having nothing to show for themselves but according to rumor also having projects go off the rails Then there was the incident last year where a couple of ex-employees alleged that behind closed doors the studio had become a circus, with poor management preventing anything getting done.

They're just not a studio I have any confidence in.

They were a chaotic new studio in 1998-2000 and that has you worried? First of all, how many people do you think worked for Retro ~20 years ago are still there? Shouldn't the ~15 years of consistent output after that have put you at ease?

Sure, the last few years may have been rough and maybe the studio is a circus now but do you really think that 20 years ago when the studio first opened is at all relevant to their current issues?

It's nothing more than a coincidence.

Well that's the thing, if we're going to say their past struggles aren't relevant any more, I'd equally say that by now their period of success is long gone enough to no longer be relevant. If we focus on the here and now, what we have is a studio that for the past 5 years have shown themselves totally incapable.



jason1637 said:

Oof. That's terrible news. 2021 or 2020 now.

If your dumping everything and starting back up from scratch... 3 years might not be enough time (2021).
I suspect you wont see Metroid 4, until 2022.



curl-6 said:
AngryLittleAlchemist said:

That's honestly a stretch at best. Those early 2000's projects you listed were all in the conceptual or early production phases, they were by no means games that were well into development or titles that had exhausted tons of resources. Many companies, including Nintendo, have cancelled projects at the conceptual or early stages of production, it doesn't mean a company is any less or more reliable as long as they aren't doing that for years. It's a pretty normal procedure in the gaming industry. 

So really, the point about their track record is pretty null and void. Being silent for a few years is not something which has been consistently replicated by Retro, so them being a studio which is consistently stuck in development hell isn't true. In fact, in order to even come to that conclusion, you first have to make the assumption that A ) They weren't working on multiple games and B ) that they weren't working on a singular project which, compared to their staff numbers and resources, was difficult to produce in the manner of only a few years. And all of this is also assuming they don't have a title coming out in the near future, for all we know they could be nearly done with their next game. 

So yeah, there's not really any evidence supporting this notion that Retro has a "track record" of development hell. They don't. 

That being said, being skeptical about Retro is understandable. Really, Retro having this game is no more or less reassuring to me than other studios creating the title. Because studios are more than just a brand name, they have a lot of baggage on top of that (like staff numbers, staff experience, resources, artistic direction, etc.). So i'm not particularly excited for Retro either, I'm just not negative towards it.

The fact they've gone more than 5 years without having anything to show for it is in itself proof that they're failing to manage development well. Well run studios who have things under control simply don't go dark for so long. Add to that the rumors of projects stuck in limbo (which historically has happened with Retro before) and the allegations from ex-employees and I simply don't see any reason to have faith in Retro's abilities any more.

I think your missing the point, what we are saying is that any problems from ~20 years ago are irrelevant to any ongoing issues since there was a ~15 period in between of consistancy.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.