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Forums - Movies & TV - Should Hollywood stop blackwashing characters?

 

Should Hollywood stop blackwashing white characters in film/TV?

Yes. Characters should fo... 49 85.96%
 
No. Representation trumps... 8 14.04%
 
Total:57
DonFerrari said:
MrWayne said:

My stance on this whole racewashing thing is, I don't care as long as the movie is good. Those who adopt the source material should decide how stricktly they wanna stick to it.
It's easy to point at negative examples for "racewashing" but hard to point at positive examples because the whole point of well made "racewashing" is that you don't notice it.
A few examples of movies or other works of art who stick very loosely to their source material and/or "racewashed" characters:
-The Departed(2006): Whitewashed the whole cast and location
-Oldboy (2003): very loose adaptation of the manga which definitely benefited the film, also racewashed all characters to korean
-Ghost in the Shell(1995): Major Kusanagi is almost a different character as in the manga
-superhero comics: comics have a long tradition of constant reimagination

Also this thought that "actors should only be casted based on how good they play/ suites the role and not based on their skin color" is very naive. for many roles the skin color determinate how well a actor is suited for said role, I doubt they would have casted a black/asian actor for Derek Vinyard in American History X if only they had played better than Edward Norton.

The examples you gave where almost all chars made by another ethinicity. So for the movie to work as an story in USA it made sense to be americans and not japanese, same for oldboy.

they changed them from chinese to white irish-american to be precise and of course it made sense that they changed their ethnicity. The whole point I wanted to prove is that you don't have to stick to close to your source material to make a good film.



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MrWayne said:
DonFerrari said:

The examples you gave where almost all chars made by another ethinicity. So for the movie to work as an story in USA it made sense to be americans and not japanese, same for oldboy.

they changed them from chinese to white irish-american to be precise and of course it made sense that they changed their ethnicity. The whole point I wanted to prove is that you don't have to stick to close to your source material to make a good film.

The close to the source on this case is relating to the location of action so it makes sense. And that isn't really trying to portray a book or anything like that, it is more a copy and paste.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

MrWayne said:

My stance on this whole racewashing thing is, I don't care as long as the movie is good. Those who adopt the source material should decide how stricktly they wanna stick to it.
It's easy to point at negative examples for "racewashing" but hard to point at positive examples because the whole point of well made "racewashing" is that you don't notice it.
A few examples of movies or other works of art who stick very loosely to their source material and/or "racewashed" characters:
-The Departed(2006): Whitewashed the whole cast and location
-Oldboy (2003): very loose adaptation of the manga which definitely benefited the film, also racewashed all characters to korean
-Ghost in the Shell(1995): Major Kusanagi is almost a different character as in the manga
-superhero comics: comics have a long tradition of constant reimagination

Also this thought that "actors should only be casted based on how good they play/ suites the role and not based on their skin color" is very naive. for many roles the skin color determinate how well a actor is suited for said role, I doubt they would have casted a black/asian actor for Derek Vinyard in American History X if only they had played better than Edward Norton.

Except, by completely ignoring the source material, it's no longer an adaptation, it's strictly a reimagining of said work, big difference. If they completely change the character, it is no longer that character except in name (which is where the whole GINO-Godzilla In Name Only acronym came from for Godzilla 98). It would be like if they made Batman a living humanoid bat who eats people in the middle of New York City instead of the technological crime fighter we all know him to be from the comics. You can claim "it's up to the adapters of said work" all night and day, but that shit wouldn't jive with anyone and for good reason. Or hell, if they changed Superman into a transgendered alien or gave Ellen Ripley a sex change in a hypothetical reboot of Alien (turned her into Allen Ripley), I guarantee you it would be met with the same level of shit-flinging, it's easy to see why.



CaptainExplosion said:
Well I still prefer black Nick Fury over the white one.

Nick Fury WAS black in the comics at one point, though (Ultimate Marvel version of the character). Then when SLJ's iteration of the character was so well-received, that version of Nick Fury was later made the main universe version of the character in the comics and animated films and shows.



KManX89 said:
MrWayne said:

My stance on this whole racewashing thing is, I don't care as long as the movie is good. Those who adopt the source material should decide how stricktly they wanna stick to it.
It's easy to point at negative examples for "racewashing" but hard to point at positive examples because the whole point of well made "racewashing" is that you don't notice it.
A few examples of movies or other works of art who stick very loosely to their source material and/or "racewashed" characters:
-The Departed(2006): Whitewashed the whole cast and location
-Oldboy (2003): very loose adaptation of the manga which definitely benefited the film, also racewashed all characters to korean
-Ghost in the Shell(1995): Major Kusanagi is almost a different character as in the manga
-superhero comics: comics have a long tradition of constant reimagination

Also this thought that "actors should only be casted based on how good they play/ suites the role and not based on their skin color" is very naive. for many roles the skin color determinate how well a actor is suited for said role, I doubt they would have casted a black/asian actor for Derek Vinyard in American History X if only they had played better than Edward Norton.

Except, by completely ignoring the source material, it's no longer an adaptation, it's strictly a reimagining of said work, big difference. If they completely change the character, it is no longer that character except in name (which is where the whole GINO-Godzilla In Name Only acronym came from for Godzilla 98). It would be like if they made Batman a living humanoid bat who eats people in the middle of New York City instead of the technological crime fighter we all know him to be from the comics. You can claim "it's up to the adapters of said work" all night and day, but that shit wouldn't jive with anyone and for good reason. Or hell, if they changed Superman into a transgendered alien or gave Ellen Ripley a sex change in a hypothetical reboot of Alien (turned her into Allen Ripley), I guarantee you it would be met with the same level of shit-flinging, it's easy to see why.

Well then it's a reimagining. Are reimaginings a priori bad? You just gave a bunch of worst case scenarios for a reimagining, I give you a best case scenario, West Side Story a modern reimagining of  Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet.

You see, it all depends on whether the adaptation /reimagining is good or not.



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Ashadelo said:
For the most part this kind of trash is only found in America. You don't see this problem in Japan or China, (which is where I live) ever! Just shows us how brain washed with liberal ideology America has become.

Maybe that's because most of Asia and especially Japan don't even come close to places like America in terms of Ethnic Diversity in the population. You know ... it's not like there's a huge demand in places like Japan for a black person to be represented at all in Asia. 

Last edited by AngryLittleAlchemist - on 15 January 2019

I don't mind a creative casting when a character's background or appearance has been non-conclusive, but in some of the cases, changing a character's race changes everything else we know about them culturally.  There is nothing wrong with being any race or background or personality in these characters.  Marvel showed that with a strong variation in most other traits of their characters.  It's a story, a fantasy, but once people hear it and believe it and care about it, then you should no longer change the things that created the story and belief.  It has the same effect on people as seeing Toys R Us close down or watching your childhood neighborhood be flooded.  Why would Hollywood want to do that to so many people in exchange for a potential viewership of other people who probably didn't really care about the change or product to begin with.  Seems like marketing suicide.  

Also why would anyone want a hand-me-down character anyway?  Correction: Why would anyone "put up with and accept" a hand-me-down character? It cheapens the sentiment.  "Oh, can't come up with something good to represent me, so you're going to just take the easy way out and slap me on someone else's representation...."  It's almost insulting.  Hollywood should do some quality work and actually put care into characters that naturally represent other people.  Stop this stupid half attempts and just give us something real.  Strong characters deserving of their own unique backstories. Where's the modern day superhero who came from the slums, made some misguided decisions, but rose above him/herself to be something amazing?  Why can't it be based in reality?  Why does it always have to have some humor base, stereotypical slant, or white washed tie-in that cheapens the character and makes light of the struggles that people go through?  Good movies and characters that could change everything are right in front of their face and they are afraid to look at it. If they give us truth on camera, which is something Hollywood has really rarely been able to pull off, then they will get the ratings and praise for it, and maybe, just maybe, it could spark real change in the world by instilling deserved confidence, encouragement, and spotlights on issues rather than disassociating from truth and encouraging people to turn a blind eye to their daily hardships. Rather than show people how to escape their lives and pretend, give what white people have always had: role-models who show them how to survive and deal with tough issues that relate to them. It's not like we have a shortage of material...... geez.  /rant

Last edited by zygote - on 15 January 2019

Ashadelo said:
For the most part this kind of trash is only found in America. You don't see this problem in Japan or China, (which is where I live) ever! Just shows us how brain washed with liberal ideology America has become.

Where are the black dynasty warriors, black emperors, black kings, latino warriors, white monks?? China produces 100's of movies and tv shows each year. And you know what? Every Chinese movie/show that deals with Chinese lore, history, fantasy is played by Chinese actors. No whites, blacks, etc... No one here cries racist or screams for diversity. Because it would be ludicrous to do so.

If so many other countries have no problem with sticking to the original authors Character or historical accuracy. Then why is it such a big deal in America? Who cares what a handful of people think they are entilied too. If someone thinks super heroes are dominated by white people. Then please, feel free to create your own super heroes and make him/her into whatever you want that super hero to be. Don't be lazy and point the finger. Pick up the pencil and start writing/drawing.

America is diverse though...obviously its going to be depicted as such in American media as opposed to Asia...

Do you know how hard it is for diverse writers/artist to become mainstream? There are many who do "Pick up the pencil and start writing/drawing" but if they're in a white dominated field for example, comics and fantasy genre novels, they most surely get overlooked and never given a chance. It's easier said than done.



MrWayne said:
KManX89 said:

Except, by completely ignoring the source material, it's no longer an adaptation, it's strictly a reimagining of said work, big difference. If they completely change the character, it is no longer that character except in name (which is where the whole GINO-Godzilla In Name Only acronym came from for Godzilla 98). It would be like if they made Batman a living humanoid bat who eats people in the middle of New York City instead of the technological crime fighter we all know him to be from the comics. You can claim "it's up to the adapters of said work" all night and day, but that shit wouldn't jive with anyone and for good reason. Or hell, if they changed Superman into a transgendered alien or gave Ellen Ripley a sex change in a hypothetical reboot of Alien (turned her into Allen Ripley), I guarantee you it would be met with the same level of shit-flinging, it's easy to see why.

Well then it's a reimagining. Are reimaginings a priori bad? You just gave a bunch of worst case scenarios for a reimagining, I give you a best case scenario, West Side Story a modern reimagining of  Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet.

You see, it all depends on whether the adaptation /reimagining is good or not.

I don't think he said it is bad

He basically said that when you are re-imagining everything, then there is no point in complaining about some trait of a char changing. But when you are adapting close to source then these type of changes can get a lot of complain.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."