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Forums - Politics Discussion - Sam Harris Drops Patreon - Other Creators Follow

o_O.Q on 21 December 2018
SpokenTruth said:
Who he called a N-word is irrelevant. It's the underlying connotation of the word itself. The word is a term of disparagement of the black race. Period. When used by the race that brought it into the English lexicon knowing and being fully aware of its function, history, relevancy, context...you then are ignoring the pejorative nature of the word and it is that willful ignorance that does not absolve you from being called racist.

To sum up....you know it's wrong and you do it anyway = racist.

And it's made worse because he is basically saying white people are superior to black people. He said a white person of poor action/thought is a white N-word. He was calling them white-black people. As though being black is a bad thing to be.

I can't believe we have to explain this stuff. This is why this shit has persisted for so long.

And this isn't about free speech. It's about a violation of the Terms of Service which I've already linked to. Further that, you don't have free speech like you think you do. Freedom of Speech in the US is merely the freedom from the government from censoring or denying you the right to speak. It doesn't mean jack all for private enterprise (which is ironic given how the right wants private enterprise to set rules as they please).

"The word is a term of disparagement of the black race. Period."

and is used most regularly by rappers... so again i must ask, why are you discriminating against black people

 

"When used by the race"

so correct me if i'm wrong but you are using discrimination against people on the basis of race (racism) in the process of fighting racism

lol

 

" He said a white person of poor action/thought is a white N-word"

he said a white person is a white person and this is white supremacy? what the fuck am i reading right now?

 

"I can't believe we have to explain this stuff."

let me make something abundantly clear i understand this stupid ideology better then you probably ever will

i understand its root and where its going to take society in the future, you are not explaining anything to me

what is happening here is that i am demonstrating how incoherent and illogical this ideology is

 

"And this isn't about free speech."

to some extent it is but mostly its about virtue signalling and the pursuit of being a perpetual victim, which btw as i black person i know is not going to help black people but the complete opposite

 

"Further that, you don't have free speech like you think you do."

which entails what exactly?



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o_O.Q on 21 December 2018
MrWayne said:
thismeintiel said:

When you are selectively enforcing them, mainly along the lines of ideology, yes.  And those who have endured true fascism will be the first to warn others of the slow creep of fascism.  You don't wake up one day and find yourself in a fascist state.  It starts out slow and acceptable for a large group of people.  Usually taking down the "extremists."  But, they are extremists, so no one defends them.  Then, they slowly work towards the center.  But, those people in between didn't despise those viewed as extremists, or maybe just defended their right to speak, so the ones supporting these bannings say nothing, even liking them being taken out.  Then, they hit the middle.  This is usually when people actually start to get concerned, but may be too afraid of those in charge or the more extreme elements on their side to do anything.  Before you know it, it has spread to all sides of the political spectrum. 

Martin Niemoller's poem, slightly altered, works perfectly. 

First they came for the conspiracy theorists, but I did not speak out, for I wasn't a conspiracy theorist.
Then they came for the Conservatives, but I did not speak out, for I wasn't a Conservative.
Then they came for the Centrists, but I did not speak out, for I wasn't a Centrist.
Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak out.

And if you think the future of fascism is just the government, and not the government plus big corporations that are in bed with them, you will never see it coming.

You're saying a Democracy can only exist if free speech is 100% guaranteed, once there is a little restriction in free speech every Democracy will inevitably fail. That's not true, we can set stops in between the two extrems. You're trapped in a all or nothing mentality but the reality works different. West Germany banned swastikas and other Nazi symbols. Did Germany became a Dictatorship? No, infect this bann or censorship helped Germany to became a funktioning democracy.

free speech is only one of several civil rights every human has and sometimes the different rights collide with each other and we have to find a compromise. Securing freedom of speech to 100% all the time will inevitably hurt other civil rights.

"Securing freedom of speech to 100% all the time will inevitably hurt other civil rights."

please elaborate



WaterTester on 21 December 2018

Now I've lurked on this site for years but seeing as how this Patreon thing is very important to me I thought I should just sign up to make a quick post. A lot of the defenses for Sargon have already been said, he made a comment taken out of context and it wasn't even from his own channel, (it's the equivalence of passing by a co-worker out side of work, overhear her say something offensive with out context and getting her fired the next day at work). What gets me is how much this thread resembles the latest video from Tim Pool, going over the same methods used by some users here.

I would recommend that people do some research before making strong claims or even watching a video like this but either way, I just found it interesting for anyone looking to see this from a lurkers perspective.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pOwk6bHLr8



Immersiveunreality on 22 December 2018
LurkerJ said:
Errorist76 said:

He clearly violated their terms of service by repeatedly using racial slurs and generalisations. The guy is known for supporting alt-right ideas, but that wasn't the reason for his ban. It was open racism on display...whoever supports that only shows his own ideals 

Show me the evidence. You can't make such a ridiculous claim without backing it up with evidence. 

It's so wrong some call people on their own political side and people far away from the alt right either alt right supporters or alt right like to strengthen themselves to be against them but i consider such ungrounded claims slanderous and it destroys healthy discussion.



DarthMetalliCube on 23 December 2018
Munn75 said:

I think the latter part of this thread highlights an important issue. There is so much focus on a single word without looking too deeply into the context or maybe intention is a better way of putting it. Personally, it's a word I don't use. When I see it used by others, context/intention is key. It's usually pretty easy to see if someone is saying it out of malice with evil intent or for some other reason. I personally think it is a dangerous word to use but it does seem to pop up in music, comedy, etc.

That said, here is the real issue. Get rid of the word completely. Problem solved? No. Racist behavior will continue to exist. Just saying the word doesn't automatically make you racist. Many people who never openly say the word are actually racist.

The biggest problem these days is the lack of discussion. Bad ideas should be ridiculed not forbidden because latter option tends to radicalize. If I could tell Sargon anything, it would be that his use of the words while not racist/bigoted, are distracting and not helpful. Now we are talking about and focusing on the wrong things. I'm far more concerned about people's action than their words. It also gives opposition and easy way to ignore many of the valid arguments he has made before and after by simply shouting "racist".

BINGO



 

"We hold these truths to be self-evident - all men and women created by the, go-you know.. you know the thing!" - Joe Biden

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Immersiveunreality on 23 December 2018
DarthMetalliCube said:
Munn75 said:

I think the latter part of this thread highlights an important issue. There is so much focus on a single word without looking too deeply into the context or maybe intention is a better way of putting it. Personally, it's a word I don't use. When I see it used by others, context/intention is key. It's usually pretty easy to see if someone is saying it out of malice with evil intent or for some other reason. I personally think it is a dangerous word to use but it does seem to pop up in music, comedy, etc.

That said, here is the real issue. Get rid of the word completely. Problem solved? No. Racist behavior will continue to exist. Just saying the word doesn't automatically make you racist. Many people who never openly say the word are actually racist.

The biggest problem these days is the lack of discussion. Bad ideas should be ridiculed not forbidden because latter option tends to radicalize. If I could tell Sargon anything, it would be that his use of the words while not racist/bigoted, are distracting and not helpful. Now we are talking about and focusing on the wrong things. I'm far more concerned about people's action than their words. It also gives opposition and easy way to ignore many of the valid arguments he has made before and after by simply shouting "racist".

BINGO

And the thing is that we mostly fight people with the same good intentions as us over these differences instead of taking on real problems.



Helloplite on 23 December 2018

There's no such thing as die hard free speech activist.



o_O.Q on 23 December 2018
Munn75 said:

I think the latter part of this thread highlights an important issue. There is so much focus on a single word without looking too deeply into the context or maybe intention is a better way of putting it. Personally, it's a word I don't use. When I see it used by others, context/intention is key. It's usually pretty easy to see if someone is saying it out of malice with evil intent or for some other reason. I personally think it is a dangerous word to use but it does seem to pop up in music, comedy, etc.

That said, here is the real issue. Get rid of the word completely. Problem solved? No. Racist behavior will continue to exist. Just saying the word doesn't automatically make you racist. Many people who never openly say the word are actually racist.

The biggest problem these days is the lack of discussion. Bad ideas should be ridiculed not forbidden because latter option tends to radicalize. If I could tell Sargon anything, it would be that his use of the words while not racist/bigoted, are distracting and not helpful. Now we are talking about and focusing on the wrong things. I'm far more concerned about people's action than their words. It also gives opposition and easy way to ignore many of the valid arguments he has made before and after by simply shouting "racist".

"Bad ideas should be ridiculed not forbidden"

 

another important thing to note here is that quite often we will not know that an idea is really "bad" unless we've thoroughly analysed it

this is why we have all of this great technology, for example, some crazy person stuck their neck out proposing something new and because they were allowed to push their idea they made life better for everyone

the oversensitive morons constantly looking for the next way to virtue signal don't understand this of course, if we turned the clock back a few centuries, they would have been the ones burning "witches" at the stake



thismeintiel on 24 December 2018
SpokenTruth said:
o_O.Q said:

btw as i black person i know is not going to help black people but the complete opposite

Can you word this better because that reads incredibly bad.  Both in grammar and content.

The content is bad? It seems obvious to me what he is saying. As a black person, he knows that it isn't going to help other black people, intead it will do the opposite.



 

collint0101 on 24 December 2018

This is what conservatism has become. A bunch of people defending the right for someone to use racial slurs on the internet. I have nothing against Harris but fuck Sargon he isn't entitled to someone else's platform and if it were my site I would have 0 problem kicking his edgy borderline racist garbage off

Last edited by collint0101 - on 24 December 2018