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Forums - General - Do you believe in God? Why/Why not?

 

Do you believe in any god?

Yes 63 36.21%
 
No 111 63.79%
 
Total:174
Pemalite said:
HollyGamer said:

Then tell me your " science " , can the science answer all . Even in front of the nature science cannot do anything. 

Science isn't meant to do anything.
Science does not care about yours or anyone elses beliefs, science doesn't even care about your religion or God/s.

Just remember... The scientific method has given us everything in the modern world.. From the paper that your religious texts are written on, to the pen that is used to write those words... To the modern medicines that save peoples lives... And even the ability to explore the Solar System.

All Science is doing is finding out the truth of the natural world, it doesn't have an answer for everything, it never has pretended to have an answer for everything.

But what we can with 100% certainty say though is that Science is trying to find the answers to all those questions via research, tests, functioning models and so-forth. - Whilst religion stays stagnant and the common reply to something the religious don't understand (I.E. Creation) is "God did it" without any factual evidence to backup those assertions.

So no. Science doesn't answer every question, it never pretended to. - It is actually okay to say "I don't know".
But it is working to find the answers.

Then you need to count and use other thing to compliment science like Einstein said "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." 



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Torillian said:
HollyGamer said:

Then by  " LOGIC " you refuse to accept that something cannot exist without a "Cause ". Because everything in "reality " that is exist are because of something happen. If your self by your own believe dont believe with and entity that is Creator or the one who ignite or created or made it , then your self refuse. 

It not a matter of who can answer or who cannot answer is just a "Logic " of something that is exist need to be by a cause. 

But that irrefutable logic gets to be thrown out when it comes to that cause itself when you say it's a Creator. That's why this argument seems so disingenuous is you say that obviously since everything we've ever seen happen had a cause that the universe itself must have had a cause and that cause is a god who for some reason doesn't need to have a cause even though we just went over how everything had to have a cause. For those who are more scientifically inclined it just doesn't make any sense to forego all logic the second it pertains to this cause you want to claim the universe had to have. 

Then tell me other alternative if it's not something , some entity , then who or what ??? 



HollyGamer said:
Torillian said:

But that irrefutable logic gets to be thrown out when it comes to that cause itself when you say it's a Creator. That's why this argument seems so disingenuous is you say that obviously since everything we've ever seen happen had a cause that the universe itself must have had a cause and that cause is a god who for some reason doesn't need to have a cause even though we just went over how everything had to have a cause. For those who are more scientifically inclined it just doesn't make any sense to forego all logic the second it pertains to this cause you want to claim the universe had to have. 

Then tell me other alternative if it's not something , some entity , then who or what ??? 

When you don't know what causes something the answer is simple: I don't know. Coming up with magical solutions to a problem is not actually any better than "I don't know" and the latter is a lot more honest in my view. 

And again, if everything needs to have a cause, then what caused this entity? You haven't figured out a solution to the problem, you've only created a new one. 



...

Torillian said:
HollyGamer said:

Then tell me other alternative if it's not something , some entity , then who or what ??? 

When you don't know what causes something the answer is simple: I don't know. Coming up with magical solutions to a problem is not actually any better than "I don't know" and the latter is a lot more honest in my view. 

And again, if everything needs to have a cause, then what caused this entity? You haven't figured out a solution to the problem, you've only created a new one. 

I am agree we don't know "the process " but we can agree "  there is something " that initiate thing and create. Because "it's impossible " for  an intelligent creation exist without an intelligent designer. 



HollyGamer said:
Torillian said:

When you don't know what causes something the answer is simple: I don't know. Coming up with magical solutions to a problem is not actually any better than "I don't know" and the latter is a lot more honest in my view. 

And again, if everything needs to have a cause, then what caused this entity? You haven't figured out a solution to the problem, you've only created a new one. 

I am agree we don't know "the process " but we can agree "  there is something " that initiate thing and create. Because "it's impossible " for  an intelligent creation exist without an intelligent designer. 

That's not how logic works. you appear to have a fundamental misunderstanding of how logic and reason work and that is why it is so hard to have a conversation with theists. 

The real question that needs to be answered is: Where did the God Myth come from? What instigated it? What started the whole idea of the abrahamic god? I ask because if you go from a scientific perspective with today's modern methods, no train of reason leads to a God. God has never come down from upon high to declare his presence to us, no events have directed us toward a divine being, and nothing is without explanation. If you take God out of the equation (As a historical figure or the legacy of mythology he has surrounding him), you would never come to the conclusion that everything is governed by a sentient, omnipotent, divine being. The only thing that makes you legitimately believe in a God is that God has been such an integral part of society for so long that the idea has long since been ingrained in our collective consciousness. 

Yet, from the level of science or psychology, the belief in a God is no more mature or rational than the child who has an imaginary friend or the adult who hears voices. You'll argue to the contrary - because of course you will - but that is the unadulterated truth. You believe something without any proof to back it up, and the closest you have to a counter-argument is a philosophical loophole created by the clergy to magically win any argument. (The idea that god is responsible for everything and he works in mysterious ways or that he otherwise doesn't have to abide by our laws of science/physics/logic). 

And again, the burden of proof is on theists. Atheists aren't out to ruin your worldview or take God away from you, Atheists just don't see any proof to support the existence of God despite the thousands of years theists have had to provide it. Atheists never made the claim 'there is no god' until theists made the claim that there was and failed to prove it. There was no such thing as an atheist until there were theists; therefore, the burden of proof is on Theists. I do not understand how you don't get that. 



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Alara317 said:
HollyGamer said:

I am agree we don't know "the process " but we can agree "  there is something " that initiate thing and create. Because "it's impossible " for  an intelligent creation exist without an intelligent designer. 

That's not how logic works. you appear to have a fundamental misunderstanding of how logic and reason work and that is why it is so hard to have a conversation with theists. 

The real question that needs to be answered is: Where did the God Myth come from? What instigated it? What started the whole idea of the abrahamic god? I ask because if you go from a scientific perspective with today's modern methods, no train of reason leads to a God. God has never come down from upon high to declare his presence to us, no events have directed us toward a divine being, and nothing is without explanation. If you take God out of the equation (As a historical figure or the legacy of mythology he has surrounding him), you would never come to the conclusion that everything is governed by a sentient, omnipotent, divine being. The only thing that makes you legitimately believe in a God is that God has been such an integral part of society for so long that the idea has long since been ingrained in our collective consciousness. 

Yet, from the level of science or psychology, the belief in a God is no more mature or rational than the child who has an imaginary friend or the adult who hears voices. You'll argue to the contrary - because of course you will - but that is the unadulterated truth. You believe something without any proof to back it up, and the closest you have to a counter-argument is a philosophical loophole created by the clergy to magically win any argument. (The idea that god is responsible for everything and he works in mysterious ways or that he otherwise doesn't have to abide by our laws of science/physics/logic). 

And again, the burden of proof is on theists. Atheists aren't out to ruin your worldview or take God away from you, Atheists just don't see any proof to support the existence of God despite the thousands of years theists have had to provide it. Atheists never made the claim 'there is no god' until theists made the claim that there was and failed to prove it. There was no such thing as an atheist until there were theists; therefore, the burden of proof is on Theists. I do not understand how you don't get that. 

Then stop calling God , because not all Religion have God and not All the entity or something that create calling them self god. Because in your eyes and mind, God is like Human who sit on throne , thus you think God is just like Human. 



HollyGamer said:
Alara317 said:

That's not how logic works. you appear to have a fundamental misunderstanding of how logic and reason work and that is why it is so hard to have a conversation with theists. 

The real question that needs to be answered is: Where did the God Myth come from? What instigated it? What started the whole idea of the abrahamic god? I ask because if you go from a scientific perspective with today's modern methods, no train of reason leads to a God. God has never come down from upon high to declare his presence to us, no events have directed us toward a divine being, and nothing is without explanation. If you take God out of the equation (As a historical figure or the legacy of mythology he has surrounding him), you would never come to the conclusion that everything is governed by a sentient, omnipotent, divine being. The only thing that makes you legitimately believe in a God is that God has been such an integral part of society for so long that the idea has long since been ingrained in our collective consciousness. 

Yet, from the level of science or psychology, the belief in a God is no more mature or rational than the child who has an imaginary friend or the adult who hears voices. You'll argue to the contrary - because of course you will - but that is the unadulterated truth. You believe something without any proof to back it up, and the closest you have to a counter-argument is a philosophical loophole created by the clergy to magically win any argument. (The idea that god is responsible for everything and he works in mysterious ways or that he otherwise doesn't have to abide by our laws of science/physics/logic). 

And again, the burden of proof is on theists. Atheists aren't out to ruin your worldview or take God away from you, Atheists just don't see any proof to support the existence of God despite the thousands of years theists have had to provide it. Atheists never made the claim 'there is no god' until theists made the claim that there was and failed to prove it. There was no such thing as an atheist until there were theists; therefore, the burden of proof is on Theists. I do not understand how you don't get that. 

Then stop calling God , because not all Religion have God and not All the entity or something that create calling them self god. Because in your eyes and mind, God is like Human who sit on throne , thus you think God is just like Human. 

No scientist claims any description of god, theists do. We're not saying that there is no old man sitting in the cloud. We're saying that the conclusion we have right now due to lack of evidence is that there is no proof for any god how he is portrayed in any religion. It's religion who gives the creator properties, not science. Science does not believe in a god because it has not yet found any of it and because religious depictions of god are illogical and contradictory.



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HollyGamer said:
Alara317 said:

That's not how logic works. you appear to have a fundamental misunderstanding of how logic and reason work and that is why it is so hard to have a conversation with theists. 

The real question that needs to be answered is: Where did the God Myth come from? What instigated it? What started the whole idea of the abrahamic god? I ask because if you go from a scientific perspective with today's modern methods, no train of reason leads to a God. God has never come down from upon high to declare his presence to us, no events have directed us toward a divine being, and nothing is without explanation. If you take God out of the equation (As a historical figure or the legacy of mythology he has surrounding him), you would never come to the conclusion that everything is governed by a sentient, omnipotent, divine being. The only thing that makes you legitimately believe in a God is that God has been such an integral part of society for so long that the idea has long since been ingrained in our collective consciousness. 

Yet, from the level of science or psychology, the belief in a God is no more mature or rational than the child who has an imaginary friend or the adult who hears voices. You'll argue to the contrary - because of course you will - but that is the unadulterated truth. You believe something without any proof to back it up, and the closest you have to a counter-argument is a philosophical loophole created by the clergy to magically win any argument. (The idea that god is responsible for everything and he works in mysterious ways or that he otherwise doesn't have to abide by our laws of science/physics/logic). 

And again, the burden of proof is on theists. Atheists aren't out to ruin your worldview or take God away from you, Atheists just don't see any proof to support the existence of God despite the thousands of years theists have had to provide it. Atheists never made the claim 'there is no god' until theists made the claim that there was and failed to prove it. There was no such thing as an atheist until there were theists; therefore, the burden of proof is on Theists. I do not understand how you don't get that. 

Then stop calling God , because not all Religion have God and not All the entity or something that create calling them self god. Because in your eyes and mind, God is like Human who sit on throne , thus you think God is just like Human. 

No one thinks that.

The issue with a godlike being is that there is not one observeable fact which could be used to start a hypothesis. None. The same applies to all fictional characters.



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HollyGamer said:
JWeinCom said:

Of course, I can't answer that. And neither can you.  You can claim to have an answer, but a claim requires justification, which I'm sure you won't be able to provide.

Then by  " LOGIC " you refuse to accept that something cannot exist without a "Cause ". Because everything in "reality " that is exist are because of something happen. If your self by your own believe dont believe with and entity that is Creator or the one who ignite or created or made it , then your self refuse. 

It not a matter of who can answer or who cannot answer is just a "Logic " of something that is exist need to be by a cause. 

I'm sorry, and I don't mean to be rude, by I don't know what you're saying.  Maybe English is not your first language, but this really just doesn't make sense to me.  



HollyGamer said:

Then you need to count and use other thing to compliment science like Einstein said "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." 

You have taken Einsteins quote falsely out of context. Don't do it.
You are trying to fit a scientific narrative in with a non-scientific narrative or vice versa.

"Though religion may be that which determines the goal, it has, nevertheless, learned from science, in the broadest sense, what means will contribute to the attainment of the goals it has set up.  But science can only be created by those who are thoroughly imbued with the aspiration toward truth and understanding. This source of feeling, however, springs from the sphere of religion.  To this there also belongs the faith in the possibility that the regulations valid for the world of existence are rational, that is, comprehensible to reason. I cannot conceive of a genuine scientist without that profound faith. The situation may be expressed by an image: science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.”

Essentially what is being said here is that the feeling of doing Science is very similar to that of religion, that he has faith that the natural laws are rational and understandable.

Einstein wasn't the theistic friend you like to portray either... And I quote:
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weakness, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still purely primitive, legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation, no matter how subtle, can change this for me."

And of course:
"Science without profound curiosity won’t go anywhere, and religion without science is doubly crippled.”

With that in mind, Einstein was a human being... He got things wrong, he was still a brilliant man however, but instead of trying to put he man on a pedal-stool as someone who is infallible (No one is!), you judge his work on an individual basis instead to see if it holds up to scrutiny.

HollyGamer said:

Because "it's impossible " for  an intelligent creation exist without an intelligent designer. 

You have just made an assertion, now you are obligated to prove it.

HollyGamer said:

Then stop calling God , because not all Religion have God and not All the entity or something that create calling them self god.

The word "God" is just a descriptor, we have to use it so that Theists can understand what is being said as that is their terminology.

HollyGamer said:

Because in your eyes and mind, God is like Human who sit on throne , thus you think God is just like Human. 

False. That is the belief you have about us, not reality.
Don't make false assertions without evidence.




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